Ancient Astronauts or Undiscovered Ancient Civilization?

There are many books on the ancient astronaut theories that have been put forth by Erich Von Daniken. I recently read the books "Fingerprints of the Gods" by Graham Hancock, and "Atlantis and the Kingdom of the Neanderthals" by Colin Wilson. Both of those authors have a theory that civilization is thousands of years older than previously thought. The theory is that a cataclysmic event happened over ten thousand years ago, and that much of the civilization was wiped out. To back these authors up, there is a theory that a swarm of comets hit North America during that time frame:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-01-01-wollymammoth_N.htm

While I do think extraterrestrials did visit us in ancient times, I think they took a hands off (Prime Directive) approach to study us and our development. What do the members of this board think on this subject? I look forward to discuss this topic.

My personal belief is that we were visited, and that they didn't necessarily do everything (ie building, etc) but that the did provide the guidance, and perhaps even equipment needed.

Another idea that I find intriguing is that we were visited by future humans ~ sort of in a 'we saw where we erred' and went back to undo the damage in a way, or even to give the earlier people a message that later people would uncover in time to undo the damage at a later date.

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According to the Bible we have been visited since the beginning. The Bible even mentions 3 different "Ages" , the Age that was, this Age, and the Age to come.

There are descriptions in the Bible about the earth being violently shaken and thrown off it's axis , killing everything. The book of Genisis opens by stating God created the heavens and the earth etc., and then the "earth became void". Some scholars believe this is the "Gap theory", where God gives a hint af the "age that was" and its destruction.

The "new creation" of Adam & Eve goes back around six thousand years and explains how God would enter a covenant with "mankind" after Satans rebellion in the "Age that was".

There is a strong possibility that during the "Age that was", when satan ruled over the earth and planets before his rebellion, that there was life on earth and also on mars and elsewhere , nobody knows how long that Age had existed before satans rebellion and Gods response. This new creation thru Adam is different than the old in that we are made in the image of God thru the seed of Adam. This current Age we are now living in is the final sifting, the seperating of the wheat from the chaff , a way for each soul to either accept or reject God , a way for the followers of satan who hear his call to gravitate towards satan , and for the children of God who hear Gods call to gravitate towards him. This thing we know of as "life" is really a giant sift allowing each soul to choose who he or she will follow, truly a freedom of choice, before Gods promise that once that is determined he will then destroy satan and his fallen legions of angels and restore the Earth back to its original state of beauty , where the lion lays down with the lamb and there are no horrible things anymore as we now know them in this life. The belivers and followers of Jesus will be covered by his blood sacrifice, their names will be written in the Lambs Book Of Life and they will be granted eternal life with God. Others who have not accepted Jesus or rejected him will be judged by God and he will determine what their future holds according to Gods word. Some may be helped and salvaged when possible, others who hold hatred towards Jesus the Son of God may not be able to be helped , their hearts may determine their own fate as they choose to reject God and follow satan into an eternity in a pit of hell, seperated from God for eternity. This will all be dealt with at the final judgement after Jesus' return to earth. The "Age to come" happens after satans defeat and the restoration of the earth where christ will reign for a thousand years in peace and harmony with all those who believed in him before entering the kingdom of God in heaven.

So when we see evidence of an "Age that was" , it supports the Biblical story of satans rebellion against God and Gods response of wiping out that Age and destroying everything that was corrupted by satan, including the ancient civilizations, life on mars, etc ... it all would fit in with the Bibles account of the past.

A very interesting topic.

And to wrap up , what better way for satan to make a last ditch attempt to lead souls away from God in this Age than to appear as "a superior extraterrestrial being" able to perform miraculous wonders ... this is why much caution is needed when weighing the ET's agenda. All we can do is judge the tree by it's fruits , we need to stay vigilant about recognizing what ET's have supposedly done so far during their contacts with mankind... if it's good stuff, then great... but if it's strange evil stuff such as inter-breeding, cattle mutilations, messages to contactees coaxing them away from God , etc ... then we need to be honest in that evaluation too.

Some excellent responses to this topic. Graham Hancock has a new book coming out in August, and I have it on a waiting list.

Ancient History has always been an interest of mine, and I have started to question when it really began. I am of the belief that civilization could be as old as 200,000 years. The ancient measurements and math do point out that the knowledge is quite old indeed.

The past is fascinating. What I find so intriguing is how advanced our ancestors really were. I think the general idea of the caveman wandering around with his club dragging his wife by the hair does them a disservice. Look at what they accomplished, with or without the help of ancient astronauts, and it's amazing. Far more advanced astrological info, pyramids, etc. Fascinating.

I don't buy a lot of the Bible explanations. I do admit they could be spot on, but personally, it does not resonate with me. I used to believe it hook, line, and sinker until I was faced with the truth of what I was taught, and well, since then it is never really something that I can consider without a huge grain of salt. There's just so much that doesn't add up with the Biblical viewpoint, but that's just how I perceive it.

Pearl wrote:

The past is fascinating. What I find so intriguing is how advanced our ancestors really were. I think the general idea of the caveman wandering around with his club dragging his wife by the hair does them a disservice. Look at what they accomplished, with or without the help of ancient astronauts, and it's amazing. Far more advanced astrological info, pyramids, etc. Fascinating.

I don't buy a lot of the Bible explanations. I do admit they could be spot on, but personally, it does not resonate with me. I used to believe it hook, line, and sinker until I was faced with the truth of what I was taught, and well, since then it is never really something that I can consider without a huge grain of salt. There's just so much that doesn't add up with the Biblical viewpoint, but that's just how I perceive it.

That's cool , you're entitled to your opinions just like I'm entitled to mine ... I'm not here to try and change your mind and hopefully you can respect christianity enough to not try and mock it just because you can't understand it , it works both ways. I believe ufology doesn't have to be limited to only anti-christian views and opinions, because all that does it support my theory even more, that the whole entire phenomena might be the work of satan, just look at the responses when God is mentioned , it kind of proves my point.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Pearl wrote:

The past is fascinating. What I find so intriguing is how advanced our ancestors really were. I think the general idea of the caveman wandering around with his club dragging his wife by the hair does them a disservice. Look at what they accomplished, with or without the help of ancient astronauts, and it's amazing. Far more advanced astrological info, pyramids, etc. Fascinating.

I don't buy a lot of the Bible explanations. I do admit they could be spot on, but personally, it does not resonate with me. I used to believe it hook, line, and sinker until I was faced with the truth of what I was taught, and well, since then it is never really something that I can consider without a huge grain of salt. There's just so much that doesn't add up with the Biblical viewpoint, but that's just how I perceive it.

That's cool , you're entitled to your opinions just like I'm entitled to mine ... I'm not here to try and change your mind and hopefully you can respect christianity enough to not try and mock it just because you can't understand it , it works both ways. I believe ufology doesn't have to be limited to only anti-christian views and opinions, because all that does it support my theory even more, that the whole entire phenomena might be the work of satan, just look at the responses when God is mentioned , it kind of proves my point.

Oh I agree, we're all entitled to our views/opinions. I do respect Christianity, and I do understand it ~ believe me, I truly do. There was no way I was going to dismiss what I was raised with out of hand or without serious study in to it. I was after lots of study, lots of reflection, and a really open mind that I was able to move ahead knowing I was making the right choice for myself and my family.

I am not sure if I looked at the right posts, but I don't really see anyone dismissing God per se, I myself DO believe in God, just not the Christian viewpoint of God. For me, Judaism is what makes the most sense, what I feel is right ~ for me, of course. All of my family {other than myself and my child} are Christian, so I do respect those who are of other belief systems. There are some really interesting theories within Judaism, and I appreciate the openness and of it being a religion more of deed than creed ~ for me, it's what makes sense, but I understand (from my own family for example) that it's not for everyone.

Actually, in the past, I'd have probably been posting along the lines of exactly what you've posted ~ so it's not that I don't respect your views, or anything, I just don't share them. Who knows though, you could be right ~ since we don't know for sure, anything is possible.

Pearl wrote:

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Pearl wrote:

The past is fascinating. What I find so intriguing is how advanced our ancestors really were. I think the general idea of the caveman wandering around with his club dragging his wife by the hair does them a disservice. Look at what they accomplished, with or without the help of ancient astronauts, and it's amazing. Far more advanced astrological info, pyramids, etc. Fascinating.

I don't buy a lot of the Bible explanations. I do admit they could be spot on, but personally, it does not resonate with me. I used to believe it hook, line, and sinker until I was faced with the truth of what I was taught, and well, since then it is never really something that I can consider without a huge grain of salt. There's just so much that doesn't add up with the Biblical viewpoint, but that's just how I perceive it.

That's cool , you're entitled to your opinions just like I'm entitled to mine ... I'm not here to try and change your mind and hopefully you can respect christianity enough to not try and mock it just because you can't understand it , it works both ways. I believe ufology doesn't have to be limited to only anti-christian views and opinions, because all that does it support my theory even more, that the whole entire phenomena might be the work of satan, just look at the responses when God is mentioned , it kind of proves my point.

Oh I agree, we're all entitled to our views/opinions. I do respect Christianity, and I do understand it ~ believe me, I truly do. There was no way I was going to dismiss what I was raised with out of hand or without serious study in to it. I was after lots of study, lots of reflection, and a really open mind that I was able to move ahead knowing I was making the right choice for myself and my family.

I am not sure if I looked at the right posts, but I don't really see anyone dismissing God per se, I myself DO believe in God, just not the Christian viewpoint of God. For me, Judaism is what makes the most sense, what I feel is right ~ for me, of course. All of my family {other than myself and my child} are Christian, so I do respect those who are of other belief systems. There are some really interesting theories within Judaism, and I appreciate the openness and of it being a religion more of deed than creed ~ for me, it's what makes sense, but I understand (from my own family for example) that it's not for everyone.

Actually, in the past, I'd have probably been posting along the lines of exactly what you've posted ~ so it's not that I don't respect your views, or anything, I just don't share them. Who knows though, you could be right ~ since we don't know for sure, anything is possible.

Excellent post , thank you for taking the time out to explain, I appreciate it and God bless you and your family.

Colin Wilson wrote a good book on the subject entitled "Atlantis and the Kingdom of the Neanderthals" (great title!). He writes of the new findings that indicate Neanderthal man was quite intelligent and knew about the stars. Since traces of a culture were found in Qatar to be @ 700,000 years old, it should not be that far of a stretch to think that civilization has a much older date. One thing people did in the past was use ruins to build their own homes and other buildings. That makes it harder to find the really old stuff. Also, Mr Wilson has stated that much of the older stuff is buried under silt and dirt. Finding where an ancient site is like a needle in a haystack.

Graham Hancock's new book is a collection of essays by other authors on this subject.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Lost-Knowledge-Hancock-Alternative/dp/0979882869/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241391307&sr=8-6

It is scheduled to be released August 1, 2009.

Ancient Astronauts or Undiscovered Ancient Civilization? Both sounds about right for me at this point. I saw "Chariots" during it's original theatrical release and enjoyed it. I also appreciate the work of Sitchin. The various bibles, texts and oral history? All have interesting data. And then there's all the artwork from cave paintings to Betty Hill's star map. And on and on - smile. Never without company, us.

It's a cinch... "except" for some combination of confluent and conflicting influences that keep it as something other than "truth" written in stone for all to acknowledge in their own ways. Bummer. Babylon. So many similar views of individual exception and interpretive clause.

Perhaps the Mk III or Mk IV version of the species will work in better harmony.

They're here - so are we - business as usual. Shhh. Mum's the word - it's a matter of global security so keep that to yourselves eh. Then again "To Serve Man" has a certain exotic flavor too.

A Google.ca video link for Chariots Of The Gods.

Cheers,

Fix'

It could be a combination of both. I do think we have been visited in the past, and they may have observed us. The evidence of the visits could be the artwork in many caves.

There is mounting evidence that civilization is much older than thought. From the discoveries of grain storage containers that are over ten thousand years old, to the possibility of cities that are now underwater because the oceans had a rise in sea level over ten thousand years ago. Graham Hancock's book "Underworld" is about such underwater cities.

Culture itself is now dated significantly older with a possible find of a village or commune in Qatar that is over 700,000 years old. The Neanderthals were more intelligent and artistic than previously thought also. Link to Qatar settlement:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?t=1803

Madsen's work in Qatar has really thrown a wrench in what was thought of as the various theories of migration. 700K is old... and it could be as old as 800K.

Have we had "help" from "time" to "time"? Yup. No question in my mind. How "often"? Maybe always, or "always" as we know the concept.

We get "help" from a group of potential histories, astronomic collisions, floods, ice ages and all manner-of-natural-nasty. We get more "help" from the stones of Sumer, the 'Scrolls, anomalous aged antiquities like in Egypt, impossibly-old mechanical and electrical devices that don't "fit" the local temporal-cultures.

For me, some of the stones in various cultures is the "lock" - engineering "beyond" what we can do affordably (if at all) today - built good, real goodly. "They don't make 'em like that any more" - perhaps, "we" never did - alone. 400 tonne stone, cut to near-perfection and transported to an altitude 11000 feet? By humans? By "hand"? Weather balloons...

Add the various culturally-reported anomalies of the "heavens"? OK. Pick a culture.

But it repeats... in one form or another in almost all cultures, so many examples; a history of amazing things that "don't fit" unless... one explores "alternative" possible explanations. Much is left on the cutting-room floor of history. All available at discount prices discounted and branded by "the status quo" to the marques of the day and specific culture, or rather, sub-culture herding. Yeah... it's an uphill - pushing a rock - thing.

Beyond the "hitting-your-head-against-a-cement-wall" factor that our noble species has to both brag and complain about there "could" or maybe "should" be an accounting and reconciliation of the various "truths" and "timing of truths" better than currently exists in our "civilization". Inspiration/perspiration. I'm gonna have a look at the Dead Sea Scrolls tour sometime this week... maybe soak up some ambient inspiration (although the deck and wind on the lake is calling very loudly).

Ancient civilization? In light of what passes for "civilization" today? I don't have a problem with "that" either kidflash2008. Garbage strike here...

A quote about the Qatari find from the Gulf Times:

Quote :

Exploring under the patronage of the Qatar Museums Authority (QMA), the scientists found basic hunting tools which they believe date back 700,000 to 800,000 years. If accurate, the discovery means early man lived in Qatar far earlier than was previously believed.

QMA CEO Abdullah al-Najjar said this provided a remarkable picture of prehistoric migration.

“Through the sands of time, we can start to understand the people who first lived on Qatar soil. It is a magnificent discovery,” he observed.
The ancient tools have been found on a terrace leading down to a gigantic depression which used to be a freshwater lake. On the shores of this lake early man hunted big game.

Some say the earliest "life" on the third rock may be 600 million plus years old... a bunch happened in that period of time... maybe even "before" too. What time IS it?

Cheers,

Fix'

Some say the earliest "life" on the third rock may be 600 million plus years old... a bunch happened in that period of time... maybe even "before" too. What time IS it?

Cheers,

Fix'

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Well the Bible tells of an Age that was, this Age, and the Age to come.
So it makes sense that something happened millions of years ago in our universe , the Bible explains that it was a rebellion by satan against God where everything was destroyed ... look around the universe, look at mars ... it does look like they held life in the Age that was and that something destroyed it all . I tend to take Gods word on the subject and anytime I see evidence of that past Age it doesn't surprise me or confuse me.

I am also beginning to think both theories are right. The problem is the authors of each type of theory does believe in the ideas of the other side. Graham Hancock makes it a point to state he does not think UFOs are extraterrestrial craft (because he took some drugs and hallucinated aliens) and Robert Temple states he does not believe there was an ancient earlier civilization.

I just wish all of the authors should look at each other's work and see both are probably right.

Do author's authority authorize authenticity authentically?

There's darn little enough peer-reviewd in modern academia to say nothing of the "free" market. BS seems to "sell" exceedingly well and is cheap to produce - any flavour will do for the tastes of many. Very sad.

I think you are right to consider "both" and maybe more kidflash2008. A reasoning open-mind is a great asset. Seems an "intellectual turf" thing or something similar sometimes - adversarial at best in the world of scribes. In heavy-duty academia it's absolutely ruthless. Lotta folks... lotta good ideas - too bad they can't add or multiply instead of subtract and divide as often or as well as might be possible.

Soylent Green Day is Tuesday. Mmmm, personality culture. It seems we do in fact "eat our own'".

The sheer number and variety of both "Ancient Astronaut" and "Ancient Civilizations" ideas and ideations leads one to many incongruent synchronizing points across cultures and the globe. How many different "not us" are we talking about? One? Four? A bunch? How about... all of them.

And that doesn't even scratch the surface of the potential quantum ramifications of EDH. Branes make my brain "hurt". It almost seems as if "time" and history, or our historian's interpretive perceptions thereof, is screwed-up in some places and "not-so-much" in others. Nothing is as mysterious as our inability to stop and have all these bright folks take a moment or two in time and actively listen to each other in authenticity.

Some say that's how "wars" start. Some say that's how "wars" stop.

Thanks kidflash2008. A whole bunch of folks could learn a thing or three from you in that regard - even me.

To our "not us" visitors of their "handy-work":

Quote :

Never try and teach a pig to sing: it's a waste of time, and it annoys the pig.

- Robert A. Heinlein

Silk purse - sow's ear. Oink.

Fix'

The best thing to also do is glean the evidence that has been presented for the ideas. When I read a book about these subjects, I read what the author has as evidence and try to research it more thoroughly.

There are many personalities to deal with when reading authors, and it is especially true in the field of ufology. Even ones I disagree with may have good ideas and some interesting evidence. I try not to mock any author or idea presented to us.

Thanks to Lesley for posting this on The Debris Field

http://forteanswest.com/wordpress-mu/arizonalowfi/2009/12/02/artifacts-untouched-at-ariz-bombing-ranges/

After seeing some of these pictographs, I wonder how much else is there that we haven't seen and may never know about. It would be nice to see if the archeologists have cataloged their findings so we can see them. I know that when they look at them they don't see what we see.

That is so true, Gort. There is so much out there yet to be found out. Sea levels are 300 feet higher than they were 12,000 years ago because of the last Ice Age. How many coastal cities are now underwater that still need to be discovered? Also, there can be up to 75 or more feet of silt and other sediments where cities have been buried under that people walk over now with no knowledge of what is underneath.

When things are discovered, there are those who think there is a possibility of a cover-up by mainstream science or the government. I am not going to follow that train of thought here, but I would not rule it out.

700,000 yr. old Settlement in Qatar.
by Beagle » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:22 pm

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=Local_News&subsection=Qatar+News&month=June2008&file=Local_News2008062322518.xml

DOHA • A prehistoric settlement in what is now Qatar may confirm alternative theories on how early humans emigrated from the African continent, a report in a Danish newspaper said.

Danish archaeologists have uncovered a settlement they believe may be over 700,000 years old, making it the oldest organised human community ever found, reported Berlingske Tidende newspaper.

Eight dwellings in the desert region of Qatar indicate that an early human species crossed what is now the Red Sea to leave their origins in Africa, according to the scientists. There is still uncertainty within the scientific community as to which routes early humans used to migrate out of Africa.

The new discovery has only been tentatively dated by the archaeologists, who have estimated the age from types of artefacts found at the site, which include axes and knives.

Other dating tests are necessary to confirm the estimates, but the find can only be carbon-dated with accuracy if organic material, such as bones, are found.
-------------------
There are several theories for "out of Africa" the most modern one is that
several groups of hominids left africa at different times:
including Homo Habilis the tool maker- Homo Erectus, Neandertals
as well as Homo Sapiens around 100,000 years ago. What does this have to do with Aliens...not sure.

I watched Ancient Aliens last night and I am convinced of two things
1. Most of the theories ignore some mainstream scientific evidence
and
2. The theories discussed above about prime directive(observation) and occasional influence, make the most sense to me. In Field Anthropology there are different ways to do a study of another culture; the most information is attained from participant observation. I wonder how much that plays into the contacts we have had?

I have three things to bring up.
1. Animism
2. Evidence
3. Control of Evidence by whoever

part one
Ancient cultures had a great deal of questions and looked for answers around them in animals, stars, natural forces, things they couldn't see. In early Egypt they saw a great cow in the sky that nutured the people. Many ancient astronaut theorists seem to for get this anthropological evidence. Does it mean we weren't visited? No, it means that some theorists go off in all kinds of directions without using available information. Even the Greeks and Romans; ie Zeus in Greek or Jupiter in Roman culture
used thunderbolts and was associated with the Eagle.

Part two
When you have Indian, Sumerian and Hellinistic people describing people coming here, visiting from the sky, in some fantastic craft, that maybe too much of a coinicidence, when you have middle age artists
paintng starships; it is probably not science fiction. When rock and cave paintings on three different continents show beings in space suits; that is evidence.

Part Three
If you watch the History channel you can see that when Bill and the boys got too close to the truth they were cancelled and instead we get ancient aliens- many of the theories and evidence presented
are mixed with wild untrue statements so the whole show losdes credibility.
eg...humans were aliens genetically engineered. Completely false: we share 99% of our dna with our cousins the Chimps. We and they split off from some common ancestor approximately 6 million years ago.
The fossils are there on both sides, from and before that time, to prove that, along with the dna. Yes there are genes in us that may have been messed with by alien contact, but we humans are of this Earth. At least mostly.

In conclusion, the Bible is a great book, it has many stories, many facts and several gleaming contradictions
the story of Adam and Eve for example is from when the Hebrews went to Mesopotamia, it is a Mesopotamian belief. Not Orignally Jewish or Christian.

My goal is to help focus people who want answers not to offend anyone.

1. That when ufos disappear and still be seen with infared
2. The identity of the MIB- special ops unit
3. An actual artifact from a UFO - Bob white object
4. Location of the alien grave- Aurora Texas.
you know tangibles