Juxtaposition Awakening Travelers

This is another message that I channeled during 2001, as I recall, and I thought is might be of intertest to some.

Cheers,
Jocariah


Juxtaposition Awakening Travelers

There’s a story that’s told
Of a fire that’s burning
The Time is at hand, there’s a change in the wind

There’s a river that flows
A generation that’s coming
It’s about to unfold, and we’re about to begin.

You are those wayward souls, those wayward travelers, awakening from a harsh winter’s night. Awakening unto your new reality, programmed as you were, by those of alien descent. For to be an abductee, as some would call it, is to be a creature programmed by your keepers - kept as you are for that specific day in which you shall all awaken, one to another.

To awaken is to realize your heritage, to see that which you are meant to see, and to realize that you all are of one bloodline, of one heritage. You are the gods of your creation, living through your creation, returning to see through the eyes of those which have been created – what more perfect union might there be, what more perfectly complete experience, could there possibly be in all of creation - save that of the creator gods returning to live through their creation, then awakening within their creation, and seeing as you do, through the eyes of those created.

You are those creatures brought forth to a new reality, to a new calling defined and refined by your keepers, those creatures guiding you and abducting you, as they have seen fit to do throughout your lives; having as they do, their agendas well in hand.

And what of those agendas, their purpose, lain out in no small detail. You are the substance of that purpose; soldiers directed as you are for that most certain mission at hand. You are workers constructing this most massive of structures, utilizing yourselves as the building blocks, as it were.

Experiencers, abductees, or the medium with which they work - it is all the same. You are the vehicle, the means with which they paint; for the picture being painted is worthy of nothing less than your best efforts, your own sweat and tears, shed for that certain experience brought forth from your very psyche, that dread that you feel, clean down to your bones.

They are the keepers, and you are the kept; they are the insulators, the ones standing between the physical and the spirit. They are those bridging the gap as it were, bringing together these two worlds by their own handiwork, being privy to both worlds, able, as they are, to move between the two.

Within and without, it is all the same. The prophets of old spoke of the spirit and the flesh, but it is not so, there is only one, only the self, existing as many forms, many characters in many plays- many seasons to many worlds - the self, truly endless, truly magnificent

This is not being told to you to inform, but rather to open a portal to other worlds, for the self.

Imagine if you will, that you were seated in a chair in front of a waterfall. See the waterfall, feel the self, searching out its existence within the waterfall. Search in and through the waterfall, let the waterfall touch you and shower you in the very water of life, the very energy of the self, endless and all encompassing, all complete within itself- to be experienced to its fullest, to its very depth, to the very core of its being.

The self exists in three distinct planes, three distinct dimensions, the before the after and the present. Existing as it does in these various realities, the self exists in all three as one.

As you read these words you are further awakening and there is that still voice within that bears witness to these words – it is as if you are remembering, as if you are recalling those things already known, already attested to beforehand.

There is a point at which critical mass is achieved, that is, a point at which there are enough who have fully awakened, to bring about a crucial point in the evolution of that archetype of what it is that you are.

Critical mass is a keyword, a master keyword, and a cornerstone as it were, to be utilized by those starting to awaken, and similar to keywords used in search engines throughout the Internet, these keywords bring with them a wealth of information, which in turn further facilitates the awakening until critical mass is actually achieved.

The journey has just begun; the preparation thus far has been to prepare you for the departure itself, therefore, stay within the waterfall, gliding effortlessly from the present to the after, and to the before. Travel as you would in your car, setting a course to wander at will.

As the self discovers itself, it grows, or is raised, exponentially.

Whatever you are, you are - at this point in our life, you are a collection of past experiences, programming performed by your keepers, and genetic tendencies - all of those things coming before, as they do, to make you what it is that you are now.

Therefore, live in the present, doing those things that are necessary, those things that stand before you to do - simply put, live in the now.

You are all temporal, living as you do with this seasonal physicality. To die is your ultimate destiny, to live your present necessity - all things standing before you as they do, so that you may find your place in the world, leaving behind your past as a vapor, a wisp of smoke swirling behind you as you pass through this existence.

You are your gods, living out these lives as you do, finding your destiny, dispersed as it is throughout your lives, living the course set before you, without need of anything. You are unto yourselves, whole, complete in form and substance, gods, living through your creation.

You are that which you seek – you are your gods.

All are fools, all are wise beyond understanding, for you are both your gods and the creation, living through yourselves as you do, embracing this journey with both patience and joy.

Let that which is in you arise to discover itself, to awaken unto its true nature - both god and man, abiding together as one, this most perfect union in all of creation.

You are, you are god, you are your god – you are your god living within you.

Days were before, that all of man came and went upon this planet in a fashion, without realizing what it was that they were. To that end, you now have all been shown what it is that you are - whether it be good or bad, whether right or wrong, you are seeing that which you are. And that is for a purpose.

To know is to realize that which stands before you, and you seeing without condemnation or judgment is that pure sweet essence that all crave. But in you, there exists no preconceived notion as to how it should or should not be, only the observing, the seeing, the witnessing of the self as it is, and as it shall continually come to be in this incarnation. Such a thing can terrify and grind at the very soul, at the very core of a man; it is not easily beheld, nor easily understood. So it is then that you have seen, un-terrified, undaunted and unflinching.

There are no solutions to be found herein, other than the awakening of the self. No solutions that abide in the soul other than the awakening of the very soul unto itself. For there are many that would have you believe that you are not gods, but rather slaves, but this is not so. Gods incarnated to serve the creation, to bless and care for those souls created, for this is the way of the universe; the way of the collective.

Looking into the heavens at night, behold the intent of the stars, that is your intent as well. You are what it is that you are, nothing more. To say that your intent is this, or that your intent is that, is to divine your place within the world in which you find yourselves – and who is it among you then, that is so able?

These words are written for those who would find familiarity in them - all things being before you for a reason.

To know a matter through the intellectualizing, and to know a matter through the experiencing are two different things, entirely. If this were not so, there would be no reason for you to incarnate, you would simply intellectualize about existing here, however, that is not the case.

You are here - Juxtaposition Awakening Travelers

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And now how a christian looks at it .....


Father in heaven, creator of all things and giver of life we praise you and glorify you.
Father, it is our duty and our salvation, always and everywhere to give you thanks through your beloved son Jesus Christ.

He is the Word through whom you made the universe, the Savior you sent to redeem us, by the power of the Holy Spirit he took flesh and was born of the Virgin Mary.

For our sake he opened his arms on the cross; he put an end to death and revealed the resurrection. In this he fulfilled your will and won for you a holy people.

And so we join the angels and saints in proclaiming your glory:

Holy, holy, holy Lord, God of power and might, heaven and earth are full of your glory.
Hosanna in the highest.
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Hosanna in the highest.

Father in heaven, it is right that we should give you thanks and glory; you are the one God, living and true. Source of life and goodness, you have created all things, to fill your creatures with every blessing and lead all men to the joyful vision of your light.

Each religion carries with it its own perspective. A view of how the individual fits into the scheme of things (i.e., the universe), and indeed, even what the scheme of things actually is, according to that particular religion or belief system.

Perspective then, entails a specific agenda, which then goes on to set the stage for whatever it is that one may encounter.

Beliefs systems are neither good nor bad, neither right nor wrong. They simply are a system utilized to establish an overall operating system if you will, for the individual.

As operating systems go, Windows, Unix, Linux and Apple, all have their quirks and intricacies. They all perform much the same function, and depending on the application at hand, one may or may not be better suited for a specific task.

Our belief system then, is rather like a computers operating system. We use our belief system as a program of sorts, to sort through everything, which we encounter within our world. We use it to categorize and file those things, which we encounter. ...even such things as UFO's and aliens.

Our long-held belief systems will often cause us to act irrationally, and illogically at times - even holding on to such systems regardless of any and all evidence to the contrary. For this is 'our' system, which we so often defend, even with our very lives - it's all that we know, and all that we have. To undermine it, would therefore undermine everything we know or have known, everything, which we've reasoned out based or built upon this belief system.

If it is that anyone can convey an ‘alternative perspective’ or alternate belief system, then this perspective is no better or worse than any other perspective or belief system – it simply is an ‘alternative’ to what one may have previously encountered.

There really is nothing new under the sun, simply different ways to discuss and perceive those same things that have existed previously, and no doubt will continue to exist. It really is about our understanding of what exists that changes – after all, things are what they are, regardless of whether or not we understand them, and regardless of which belief system one might use to interpret them.

Cheers,
Jocariah

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Juxtaposition Awakening Travelers.

Perfect, Jocariah, Absolute Truth.
Leaves me speechless, truly I fully understand the entite content of 'message'

In Atman (Self.) there is neither manhood nor womanhood,
such conceptions cannot exist in Eternity.

“The Avadhut Gita.”
Dattatreya.

Out beyond the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing
there is a field, I’ll meet you there.

Rumi.

Tom.

The fundamental step to enlightenment is the acknowledgement of good and evil.

If a person can't rationalize and accept the existence of good and evil then they leave themselves open to be decieved.

It's entirely possible that there are ET's who are good, and those who are bad.

The Bible speaks of angels who are both good and bad ... when satan rebelled against God he drew a third of the angels with him. there was a great battle in the heavens , it could explain why Mars looks like it was inhabited at one point but looks desolate and destroyed today like the other planets. There may have been an age before this current one , prior to satans rebellion against God, were our planets were inhabited and thriving...after the battle satan was roaming the air between heaven and earth as the bible explains .... God created Man and set in motion a plan of salvation for the souls of his children who hear his call and know his name ... the others who reject God's call will be sifted out and seperated in this current age ....satan knowing this is happening would do everything in his power to decieve as many of Gods children as possible .... satan would probably go as far as trying to genetically engineer his angels to appear "human-like" if he could , so as to mingle with mankind in the flesh , which could explain abductions and cattle mutilations, etc ... it could all be part of a sinister plan towards an attempted deception by evil forces. You will know a tree by its fruit, if some abductees are being traumatized and used for attempted breeding of hybrids then that type of tree is not showing good fruit of a loving and caring nature. It instead shows signs of an evil nature who has bad intentions ... not many abductees have ever told of feeling any sense of love coming from a "gray" ... they only speak of being terrorized and traumatized.

The Bible speaks of the evil angels looking reptillian or frog-like ... yet Mankind was created in Gods image ... could the evil reptillian angels of satan be on a mission to try and cross-breed to create a hybrid "human-like" creation? Satan has always tried to mimic God and this wouldn't be a stretch to imagine.

Much discernment is needed in this field ... but like I say, there could very well be "good" ET's too ... the bible does tell of "good angels" fighting against bad angels in the heavens , fighting to protect Gods children here on earth as this "AGE" plays out to its ending with the return of Christ.

The Bible warns of satan trying to deceive all mankind right before Christs return.

TOMMCFERRAN wrote:

Out beyond the ideas of rightdoing and wrongdoing
there is a field, I’ll meet you there.

Rumi.

Tom.

An interesting quote, Tom, thanks.

Coming to everything one encounters without any preconceived notions whatsoever, would seem ideal. Good or bad, right or wrong, friend or foe - why is it that we need to continually pigeonhole everything we encounter into such narrow parameters?

Better yet, why would we want to think, along the lines of such narrow parameters.

To me, its rather like asking us to see, in only one of two colores - black or white.

I'll take all of the colors of the rainbow, thank you very much.

Cheers,
Jocariah

Sometimes "Growing and Learning" in life means having the ability to decipher between "right & wrong"... Man is a wonderful creation who has the ability to "choose" between right and wrong. It is a quality of ours that all "Beings out there" may not share with us. Being able to choose between whats good and bad should not be dismissed as "pigeon-holing" ... it should be admired as a wonderful characteristic of humans, ths "free will" ability to make decisions and discern the words, actions and intents of others... it is a very powerful gift from God.

Do you care about what you put in your body? Or do you just eat or drink anything and approach it with an open mind?

Would you drink poison anti-freeze if someone offered you a glass? Or would you "pigeon-hole" it into one of the "bad things" that you should not drink?

Being able to discern good from bad can actually save your life .... in more ways than one.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Sometimes "Growing and Learning" in life means having the ability to decipher between "right & wrong"... Man is a wonderful creation who has the ability to "choose" between right and wrong. It is a quality of ours that all "Beings out there" may not share with us. Being able to choose between whats good and bad should not be dismissed as "pigeon-holing" ... it should be admired as a wonderful characteristic of humans, ths "free will" ability to make decisions and discern the words, actions and intents of others... it is a very powerful gift from God.

Do you care about what you put in your body? Or do you just eat or drink anything and approach it with an open mind?

Would you drink poison anti-freeze if someone offered you a glass? Or would you "pigeon-hole" it into one of the "bad things" that you should not drink?

Being able to discern good from bad can actually save your life .... in more ways than one.

You have thoroughly convinced me that your Christain-based ‘right-or-wrong’ belief system seems well suited to you, and you to it…. bravo! I am happy for you.

Cheers
Jocariah

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You have thoroughly convinced me that your Christain-based ‘right-or-wrong’ belief system seems well suited to you, and you to it…. bravo! I am happy for you.

Cheers
Jocariah



Thank you ! And it just might not be confined to "christianity" , it could be the "Law of the universe" where beings from all places acknowledge the existence of good and evil.

"Thank you ! And it just might not be confined to "christianity" , it could be the "Law of the universe" where beings from all places acknowledge the existence of good and evil."

Now there’s an interesting concept – the universe functions, not according to its own laws and precepts, but rather according to your belief of good and evil. Your belief system, besides being your belief system, could be, as you put it, “the law of the universe”.

So that what you are saying here, if I understand this correctly, is that the universe functions according to how you perceive it. Your belief system then, is not what ‘you’ alone use to interpret the universe – but rather, it is so much more than that, it is ‘the way’ in which the universe functions.

More succinctly – the entire universe functions according to your belief system.

That seems to me at least, to be an awfully big burden to carry around... seeing to it, that the universe functions according to your belief system.

Cheers,
Jocariah

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I said it "could" .... do you know what the word "could" means? You twisted the meaning from a "possibility" to "a fact" all by yourself .. BRAVO !!!

Allow me to enlighten you a little bit .... in discussions of these types we should all respect each others thoughts and opinions on these topics, nobody has a cornerstone (not even you) on how we should all view these topics. The beauty of open discussions on such topics is that you get the chance to hear other peoples opinions and views, you don't have to agree with them, but the sharing of views and opinions can be a healthy and enjoyable experience if we all approach it with a sense of respect towards each other. If I have a "christian perspective" towards the topics being discussed, you should be a big enough person not to get your feathers ruffled. We all have something to add ... whether you perceive it as "right or wrong" shouldn't be the test for how you treat others in the discussion. You are obviously repulsed by any mention of a christian perspective on any of these topics, but try and realize that we who hold these opinions aren't trying to force you to change your outlook, we are simply giving our own perspective. You say you receive "channeling" .... well we christians are guided by the Holy Spirit .. we feel that we are being led in the truth , the words I write are not my own but have been put there by the Holy Spirit. So you see ... don't take my opinions as a personal attack on you or your opinions, instead enjoy the process of talking it out, debate if you will the topic, but try and remain respectful towards each other throughout.

Now back to topic ..... You sound confounded that the possibility of "good and evil" might exist in the universe .... why would that confound you so much? Why would that possibility be so hard for you to fathom?

What is to be done, O Muslims, for I know myself not,
Neither a Christian am I, nor Jew, nor Magian nor Muslim.
Neither of the East am I nor West, nor of the land, nor sea;
Nor of nature's quarry, nor of heavens circling above.
I am not made of earth or water, not of wind or fire;
Nor am I of the Divine Throne nor of floor carpeting,
Nor of the realm of the cosmos, nor of minerals.
I am not from India, nor China, nor Bulgaria, nor Turkistan;
I am not from the kingdom of the two Iraqs, nor from the earth
of Khorasan.
Neither of this world am I nor the next; nor of heaven nor hell;
Nor from Adam nor Eve nor of Eden, nor paradise or its porter.
My place is the placeless, my mark the markless;
Not either body nor soul for I am myself the Beloved.

Rumi, Diwan-i Shams-i Tabrizi

Tom.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Now back to topic ..... You sound confounded that the possibility of "good and evil" might exist in the universe .... why would that confound you so much? Why would that possibility be so hard for you to fathom?

Hello NJ witness,

I cannot speak for Jocariah, nor would I pretend to. But I must say that "good and evil" is not anything I recognize as a "law of the universe". That is because good and evil are human applied value judgments. They imply a black and white order to the universe where only an infinite number of shades of gray exist.

For instance, I can talk about everybody's (in our limited culture) symbol of evil, Adolf Hitler. I would not argue that the man was not a sociopath of megalomaniacal proportions. But he was born on this planet to a mother and father just like every other being. And biographies of him speak of his great social grace and personal charisma. His ability as an orator was legendary and no doubt was a primary factor in his meteoric rise to power. And, here is a point which you will never see in our history books: Hitler was perhaps singularly responsible for the end of the great depression. His constant saber rattling caused America and the European nations to pump up the manufacture of weapons and such, thus putting millions of jobless people to work. Yeah, it is a pretty wretched way to pull the world out of its doldrums, but there is no arguing its effectiveness.

So, despite his great evil, the man had redeeming qualities as well. So, he was not just a black and white sample of pure evil or pure goodness that such a philosophy demands. To put this into Christian terms Jesus said that all men are born of god and it is not right for us to condemn any one of them.

Yeah, I know that kind of thinking is hard to accept when you would prefer our world to be all black and white. But the fact is that such absolutes are just a human intellectual delusion. A virally infected mosquito has as much right to live as you or I do. You just need to see the world from the viewpoint of the mosquito: he is only doing his best to maintain his life, just like you or I. And this is where those applied value systems come fully into play: "good" and "evil" are SUBJECTIVE judgments. You or I might see the mosquito as "evil". But to the mosquito, he is "good" while the swatting human hand is "evil".

To apply these subjective judgments as if they are "universal" is a very tilted and exclusive view of reality.

The universe expresses itself through all life and all things and does not discriminate for or against any of them because of any applied human value systems. Expecting that it work that way is, just as Jocariah said, "seeing to it, that the universe functions according to your belief system".

Aeolus Kephas says that belief systems are B.S. I think that assessment is just about right.

Mike Good wrote:

Aeolus Kephas says that belief systems are B.S. I think that assessment is just about right.

Why do we even need a belief system?

Cheers
Jocariah

Jocariah wrote:

Mike Good wrote:

Aeolus Kephas says that belief systems are B.S. I think that assessment is just about right.

Why do we even need a belief system?

Cheers
Jocariah

You DO need a belief system! Without a belief system we could not communicate nor could you ask such a question. Language and communication are belief systems.

The trick is to acknowledge belief systems as temporary tools, useful for a time, but to be sloughed off as soon as they become cumbersome, delusionary or counterproductive to our unencumbered apprehension of "reality". Yep, that "reality" thing is a belief system too......

Belief systems are useful for getting by in life. But they are not proper lenses for perceiving reality. The problems begin when we confuse our beliefs with reality. We need to see belief systems as temporary tools, not absolutes.

Mike Good wrote:

You DO need a belief system! Without a belief system we could not communicate nor could you ask such a question. Language and communication are belief systems.

The trick is to acknowledge belief systems as temporary tools, useful for a time, but to be sloughed off as soon as they become cumbersome, delusionary or counterproductive to our unencumbered apprehension of "reality". Yep, that "reality" thing is a belief system too......

It seems to me, that your perspective of our belief systems is much broader than my own ... that's interesting.

How then is it that you know what to save and what to throw away?

Cheers,
Jocariah

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I think maybe you're both confusing my point a little bit ... I was not saying the existence of good and evil had to be "mans belief system", I was saying "what if" the battle between good and evil was already happening "before" man entered the picture?
A spiritual warfare raging in the heavens "before" man was created !

The Bible tells of such a conflict happening prior to this age of human creation, where a powerful angel of God (satan) rebelled in the heavens and broke the peace and harmony that once existed. The Bible tells of how the conflict caused destruction and desolation , the earth quaked and moutains crumbled, the earth was knocked off its proper axis, everything became void and desolate ... all of the planets look that way too.

Now enter the new age, this current age we are now living in ... the new creation of "mankind" ... created in the image of God , possessing the characteristics of being able to "choose" between right and wrong. Being able to choose God ... or to choose satan... each man with the ability to choose which voice he follows, God or satan.

In the end each will have chosen which voice their heart follows, will they follow the voice of God? Or will they be deceived by satan and denounce and reject the existence of a loving who created them?

Satan would love for everyone to believe that there is no such thing as good and evil, it opens the door for them to be deceived by satan. The war in the heavens is still raging over the souls of men , its the ultimate prize for the evil one, and his number one strategy is the use of deception. So all I say is use caution have an open mind when pondering all things such as these...don't allow your minds to "close out" the possibility of a battle between good and evil going on as we speak , weigh the possibility of all things when making your minds up ... but why be so close-minded towards the possibility that the story in the Bible might be true and that there may be a battle over the souls of mankind...to reject it out of hand as foolishness and just a man-made belief system is being narrow-minded towards the possibility of all things.

A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT UFO's and ET's MIGHT REPRESENT



WARFARE IN HEAVEN



The Bible tells a titanic struggle between good and evil. We might enjoy reading about the clash between the forces of good and evil in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, but in the Scriptures, we read of a far more epic and cosmic conflict. The warfare between the kingdoms of light and darkness is waged not just over this earth, but in the heavenly realms too.

The universe was created for God's glory. The glory of God is the chief end of all creation. He created the universe to be under His sovereign rule, to be ordered according to His purposes. However, Satan one of His angels sought to usurp the throne of the most high. We read of this in the Old Testament:


Isaiah 14
12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15: Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Satan or Lucifer became lifted up by reason of his great beauty and privilege in God's eternal kingdom. He desired to exalt himself.

Satan was joined in his rebellion by many angels. Revelation 12 would suggest that a third of the angels joined with Satan. Satan thus established his own counterfeit kingdom in the heavens. Just as God has His angels who serve Him, Satan has his own angels. Together they make up a hierarchy of evil, for they are called thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. This kingdom of opposition will wage war until its final defeat by the kingdom of God.


When did this rebellion begin? The Scriptures do not tell us. However, it would seem that it began in prehistory before the creation week of Genesis 1. There are good reasons for thinking that there is a period in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. We cannot know how long and those who use this theory to explain geological time have many difficulties. Nevertheless, the state of formlessness in which we find the world in Genesis 1:2 is likely the result of Satan's original rebellion. Teh original would thus have been created to be inhabited and administered by angels, yet this creation fell into ruin and was replaced by the world in which we now dwell.

God closed the former dispensation of pre-history and began a new work with mankind. He entrusted to them the dominion of earth. Humanity, made a little lower than the angels was chosen to be the new custodians of God's kingdom.

Yet though Satan's original rebellion was judged and halted, he did not cease his war and corrupted the new creation by obtaining the loyalty of man. Through capturing the hearts of men, Satan was able to re-establish his rule over the world. So we find in Scripture that Satan is called the prince or god of this world. His kingdom holds sway over it. The apostle Paul tells of this kingdom of darkness and its influence over the world:


Ephesians 6
12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


We read in Daniel of a 'prince of Persia', no doubt a fallen angel of great power, who presumably exercised dominion over the heathen people of Persia. There are some Charismatic Christians who make much of 'Territorial spirits' and seek to do spiritual warfare against such beings. This is folly. We do not begin to have the knowledge to know how to fight such beings directly, nor do we need to know the details of how Satan's kingdom works in some particular location. The Christian should not trouble about the details of what territorial spirits there might be and rather fight through simple prayer and the preaching of the Word. That is our place in this cosmic conflict.

It is necessary to mention a second fall of angels. There are some who connect this with Satan, though there is not sufficent evidence to make that connection. This is the fall of the sons of God, in the time of Enoch and Noah, who saw that the daughters of women were fair, as we read in Genesis 6. From the wicked intermarriage of angels and humans came a race of giants who were wiped out in the flood (though the giants of Canaan were probably a similar race). It is likely that the demons are the disembodied spirits of these beings.

God wasted no time in judging the angels of this second rebellion:


Jude
6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.



We do not know how the course of the warfare in heaven effects events on earth, but we have reason to believe there is some connection, however mysterious. Deborah sang of how the battle on earth was waged in heaven too:


Judges 5
20: They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.


Elisha's servant was given a vision of the legions of angels who were on the side of Elisha:


2 Kings 6
15: And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
16: And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17: And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.


The marvellous thing about this story is not the vision that the servant received, but that Elisha had no need for it. By faith he knew of the spiritual forces that were on his side.

We must not forget to look at Job. At the beginning of the book of Job, we see Satan in heaven with the sons of God. We learn from this story that Satan's actions are limited by God's control. Satan cannot act outside the sphere that God limits him to.


The warfare in heaven will come to a climax in the end times, at the middle of Daniel's Seventieth Week. We read in Revelation chapter 12:


7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.




Satan will be defeated in heaven and he and his angels will be sent down to earth. There he will aid the Beast and the Antichrist in opposing God on earth through persecuting the church and the remnant of Israel. Once he is expelled from heaven, Satan will no longer be able to domminate the affairs of earth with the same governmental authority. He will have to rely entirely on his human intermediaries. After the defeat of his followers at Armageddon, he will be bound for a thousand years. He will no longer be able to wreak havoc in the earth.

Once Satan is removed from heaven, the celesital realms are ready to be purified and made fresh. They shall burn with fire at Christ's coming, as we read in 2 Peter 3:12.
The removal of Satan and his angelic kingdom is a vital step in God's purposes. For the new heavens shall be the seat of government for a new celestial hierarchy. The Lord has prepared a replacement for the old angelic government of angels in a people He has gathered to Himself. This is the church and the resurrected saints of the Old Testament. They shall reign with Christ and consitute a new celestial aristocracy to govern the universe. By grace, the fall of Satan and his angels made way for the uplifting of man to the highest place in the universe. All things shall be subject to mankind (the son of man and those that are in Him).

The final battle shall take place after the millennium. Satan shall be let out and shall again gather a rebellion of wicked men. Though the earth shall be governed in the millennium by peace and righteousness, the heart of man is wicked. Sinful man can never be satisfied with God's goodness. People shall turn again to Satan's lies. Yet they shall be defeated swiftly. Though they may hope that Satan might have some last trick to save them, they will be vanquished and sent to the lake of fire forever, to be tormented day and night with Satan, the one to whom they offered their lives.

With the ultimate defeat of death and sin, God may be all in all. The cosmos shall be restored to perfect fellowship with God and all of creation, man, woman, beast, angel shall all be joined in harmony with the eternal love of the Triune God, experiencing the perfect fellowship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit and being transformed and transfigured by that divine love.

Mike Good wrote:

Belief systems are useful for getting by in life. But they are not proper lenses for perceiving reality. The problems begin when we confuse our beliefs with reality. We need to see belief systems as temporary tools, not absolutes.

You must have edited your post at the same time I asked my question ... very succinct answer, thanks

.

LakehurstNJwitness,

RE: Your 'WARFARE IN HEAVEN'

Next time just post the link - no need to paste and copy over 1,700 words from someone else's website to this or any other thread.

Your actions appear foolish and disruptive to those trying to have a discussion.

Furthermore, without acknowledging the original source, it's called 'plagiarism'.

Here's a LINK to the original source of material posted by LakehurstNJwitness:
http://dyspraxicfundamentalistbp.blogspot.com/2007/12/warfare-in-heaven.html

Based on the above, I won't be responding to any further posts by you.

Cheers,
Jocariah

.

I announced in the beginning of the post that it was "a christian perspective" and used that christians subject title "warfare in heaven" .... It was obviously not my writing and I never intended anyone to think it as my writing...thats why I titled it "a christian perspective" and used the authors title .

You use channeling the same way you think I used someone elses thoughts, you take someone elses message and post it ... and then you talk about it as if it was your own thoughts and ideas (I didn't attempt to do that, I simply posted the same message that I had already been trying to explain to you, and posted the same exact message in somebody elses words with the Bibles chapter and verses so as to help you).

At least us christians are consistant , our message is the same yesterday, today and tomarrow... no matter which one of us writes it. Our messages are based on the word of God ...which is printed in the Bible for all to see, so basically a million different christian writers can post a message on this subject , and they would all be saying the same thing, you can call us all plagerizers because we all share the same beliefs, thats why we're called christians. I didn't claim to be "channeling a new message" , I was trying to be helpful by posting the piece of writing called "warfare in heaven" because it gave the chapter and verses for anyone who might be interested.

You need to chill out and relax a little , if you can't take having others give their opinions on these topics maybe a message board isn't the right place for you, you sound a little uptight for this kind of format. Do you think everyone flocks here to read your 10,000 word channelings ? Well I got news for you, we're here because we're fans of UFO MAGAZINE and the TV show.

Now you post more than anyone else on this website , you've been given the floor on many different topics to rant on about what you believe... so now that someone else wants to give an opinion , don't act like an immature little crybaby...ok?

thank you

Peace & Love

Quote: Mike Good....Belief systems are useful for getting by in life. But they are not proper lenses for perceiving reality. The problems begin when we confuse our beliefs with reality. We need to see belief systems as temporary tools, not absolutes.""

"....they are not proper lenses for perceiving reality"

I have, in my own mind, differentiated between my 'belief system' and my 'thought process' … to me, at least, the two are separate. Of course, that’s not right or wrong, but that is simply how I see it.

Does your definition of the term ‘belief sytem’ include your thought process as well. And secondly, what is the proper lens for perceiving reality.

Thanks in advance for your answer.

Cheers,
Jocariah

..

Jocariah wrote:

I have, in my own mind, differentiated between my 'belief system' and my 'thought process' … to me, at least, the two are separate. Of course, that’s not right or wrong, but that is simply how I see it.

Does your definition of the term ‘belief sytem’ include your thought process as well. And secondly, what is the proper lens for perceiving reality...

Belief systems are thought processes, shaped by what you believe to be "true". Thought processes do not HAVE to follow what you believe to be true, but they most usually do, at least the ones we give credence to. Since thought processes stem from language and language from culturally imposed agreements, it also follows that our thought processes will conform to our culturally imposed belief systems.

Thus, all thought processes are in-formed by our belief systems. You cannot separate the two.

The proper lens for perceiving reality is an open mind.

An open mind is one that, as much as possible, tries to perceive reality without the baggage inducing filters of belief systems. When we enshrine something in belief, we think that we already "know" that thing and, thus, our minds become closed off to any other possibilities. That is the end of curiosity, learning and mind expansion.

That is why the open mind trumps all.

I'd heard just recently that "belief" is a toxic commodity best left to one who wants to stop thinking because "belief" discounts antithesis... where antithesis is absolutely required for efficacious thinking. There is no "up" if there is no antithetical "down." I paraphrase.


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