There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!

Golly, gosh, gee-willikers and OH dear! We have a real and true pissathon here!

So, what is all the fuss about?

What we have here is a case of dueling epistemologies: essentially saying "my belief system is better than yours". It is the adult version of the stupid boyhood game vaguely remembered from my misspent youth: "my dad is bigger than yours!"

Of course, the relative size of one's dad was completely irrelevant to such a game. The point was to yell the loudest or express your belief (real or imagined) in the most forceful and convincing manner. It is a bit like our so-called "justice system", which does not occupy itself with finding truth (or dispensing justice) but replaces such fuzzy notions with the hard reality of deciding such questions by the counterfeit canard of which partisan's lawyers present the most convincing case.

So, why do you think we substitute argumentative pissing matches for an honest pursuit of truth?

It is because the truth is an unknown. It is a mental abstraction that is not obtainable from a frame of subjective assumptions. It is as elusive as UFOs and fairy dust. The truth is out there, but perhaps not obtainable from in here: inside our minds full of confabulated subjective notions and ersatz assumptions.

Blah, blah, blah, blather, blather. Face it folks: we are all as full of crap as a Christmas turkey.

Even good ol' Jocariah, the one who was sure he "won" the match, is full of crap. He does not "know" the things he professes to know. He only assumes them based on some subjective frame of rigorous rationalization. See, rationalizing is actually irrational. You can do it continually your whole life and what you will end up, in the end, is a pathway to emptying your life of any meaning or relevance by simply reasoning away all of the meaning in it.

Far out.

I suggest a more fruitful tack would be to read this little essay on Epistemological Chicken:
http://books.google.com/books?id=lKxWY07roQsC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=epistemological+chicken&source=bl&ots=PH-b1AoaR2&sig=_mra87Vj6_WPVxhV7HIrLaFjlZg&hl=en&ei=GwEPStS-G5S4sgPGmZmQAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#PPA301,M1

It explains that the trump cards lie somewhere outside our personal frames of reference. But, because we cannot extricate ourselves from those subjective frames, we suffer from an imposed self-delusion. The result of such a revelation is that we can only obtain certainty when we know nothing at all.

Welcome to reality. Where, paradoxically, the truth is out there - but we can't get there from here. And in THAT recognition, is the key to opening up and freeing your mind.

But yeah, I admit it: I ain't all that and a bag of chips.......

That's because I am as full of BS as a Christmas turkey.

This saddens me to say this, but I think clearly this Lakehurst woman is emotionally disturbed and by arguing with her, you may be doing her a disservice.

In her mind she thinks I am Satan and she somehow needs to save all of you from me. That makes her psychotic (delusional beliefs), as well.

I think now is the time to stop arguing with her about all of this.

Cheers
Jocariah

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Pearl wrote:

No, Lake, the rest of the thread didn't "whooooosh" over my head :rolleyes: I noticed the other comments (hence my replying to them :lightbulb: ) and sharing my ever so valuable 2 cents (sarcasm there :p )

Apparently, I need to find the ignore button LOL. (it's hiiiiiiiiiiding)

What I have noticed is that pretty much your response to anyone is either sniping, or "whoooooooosh" we just don't understand ya :p and of course some Bible quotes "proving" you right.

I was not looking to start a pee pee match with you ~ I was pointing out, in as friendly of a manner as I could, that if you want people to take you and your position seriously, you may want to tone done the "barbs".

Too, it might do you well to research some ~ in your reply to Joc's pointing out that you did a copy/paste bit, you noted that you don't have time to research. May I suggest that you do make the time to research ~ because if you DO, then you'd have more to back your ideas up with (that's something I need to do more of as well, so I am not being snarky with that suggestion).

You see, for example, your views of the Jewish messiah are not based on understanding of the belief system (well, they're based on yours, but not on the Jewish beliefs, LOL). You suggested that I reevaluate my views ~ which I do often, BUT, you also said that the views were based on in summary, crapola, which is not true. If you take the time to see what the JEWISH messiah is to be, you will see that Jesus isn't it ~ and if you took the time to learn WHY, you might have a better understanding of others, as well as yourself. Am I trying to convert you? Absolutely NOT ~ I don't think my beliefs are any better than anyone else's, what I am trying to do is encourage you to look at why you believe what you do, and see that it might be a good idea to get even a basic grasp of other belief systems before putting your own out there as "the one". Jesus is the Christian messiah, not the Jewish one (we're not blind, hearts not hardened or any of those other 'explanations' as to why we don't love jesus :rolleyes: ) ~ and that Christianity is *NOT* the basis of the Universe, it's not PROOF of, or for, anything other than your belief system.

Get a good copy of the Tanakh, and in it you will find ALL of the JEWISH scriptures ~ compare it to your Christian "Old Testament" notably in the areas in which you claim to have over 300 "prophecies" that Jesus fulfilled ~ because in the JEWISH texts, those "proofs" are not there. And, considering the Jewish scriptures have NEVER changed in over 2500+ years, I think we've got the upper hand on what G-d allegedly did and did not say Just sayin

Are you wrong? Am I wrong? NOPE. We just see things differently. We're ALL free to believe what we choose to believe, but it does get a little grating when one such as yourself claims to hold the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when you've got not one iota of evidence ~ I take my beliefs on faith, I am not foolish enough to think that just because my religious texts say something that they are irrefutable ~ we were not there, we don't know if HaShem spoke to Moses or anyone else, and more than we know for certain who it is that channels through Joc ~ it could be HaShem for all we know. The prophets of old could have been hearing from aliens, they could have been tapping in to the collective conscience, it's NOT provable one way or the other, so we each make a decision as to what we believe, plain and simple, and no one's beliefs are any better than another ~ I guess in short it just burns me a little when you post the Bible as "fact" ~ esp. when a lot of what you're referring to are mistranslations from the original Hebrew (such as the alleged references to Jesus on the "old testament").

i doubt you'd like a Muslim telling you how the Quran holds all the truths of the world ~ because you know, Muhammad claimed to receive it from G-d and His angels. Who are we to say they're wrong? Who knows, maybe he did. My point ~ just because it's written in someone's holy book doesn't make it "evidence" of anything ~ your version of the Bible is no better than the Quran ~ a Muslim has just as much faith in their book as you do in yours, yet I'd wager you don't put much in to their books any more than you put them in Joc's claims (or else you'd have let the satan angle go by now) or Jewish texts.

Perhaps it''s the learning curve I know I've got more to learn than I can even imagine, so none of us are alone in that

Now where is that button......

Well thank you for proving my point , like I said you're whole problem with me is based on your problem with christianity.. and I knew that from the first time you tried to pounce on me. Face it Pearl, you are not tolerant of "christians" are you? They really grate on your nerves don't they? Thats why I've tried to steer clear of you and post my comments and opinions without you and me getting into a Boble lesson. I 've always respected the Jewish faith, as a christian we are taught to stand by the Jewish peoples side as they were the chosen people of God. But you don't seem to have any love in your heart for the christian people, you seem to really be bothered by christianity ... and thus you chase after my posts to someone else trying to taunt me into a cionfrontation with you over religion. Thats very immature of you Pearl.

I have made it clear to everybody here that my intentions for interjecting biblical perspective into the ufo discussion is purely based on my personal theories and opinions, I'm not here trying to convert anyone to christianity and I've said that many times.
Its interesting to note here that UFO MAGAZINE has a promo on their website for a conference where speakers will be giving presentations with Biblical Perspectives .. so if you think it's only me that finds the theory interesting than you apparently dobn't have a grasp on whats currently going on in the field of ufology. I have every right to be here offering my views and opinions on the biblical perspective , its an accepted theory in the field and you need to be more tolerant of it.

You've now exhibited a hatred towards me because of my religious beliefs, and thats not even acceptable on this format. Look at the way you just tried to rip apart my religion in your post...you're full of venom and spewing insults and hatred towards somebodies religion... do you even realize how offensive your post is ?

I was never asking you to accept christianity , so why did you come after me so hard?

Is it because you are not tolerant of christians?

Its no different than if somebody attacked a black person on this board and ripped into his race because of the color of his skin . What you did was over the line Pearl.

Jocariah exhibits the same intolerancetowards biblical perspectives and especially christian perspectives and thats why he doesn't like my opinions on the topics, but he's never attacked my religion the way you just did spewing your hatred and pissing all over my savior Jesus Christ. You are a very disturbed person as your post above clearly shows . You basically hate the fact that the name JESUS is even mentioned in your presence, you clearly detest his name and are angry that I have given a theory that says aliens could be setting the world up for a great deception thru satans gameplan for tthe end times. You could be serving satan for all I know, and I don't really care , but you're not going to bully me away from giving my opinions and theories on how it relates to ufo's .

If you want to cry and stomp your feet , go ahead.

Just try and stay away from the personal taunts and bias attacks on people based on your hatred of their religious beliefs. I haven't bashed anyones religious beliefs and I never will , but I don't appreciate you trying to ridicule my beliefs... this is a board for ufo discussions and your attack has no place here. My mentioning of biblical perspecytives is based on the ufo discussion in general , nobody here is trying to fight over religions.

And keep in mind, UFO MAGAZINE promotes experts who agree with my personal views and opinions , so it isn't me who is out of place, the religious perspective on ufo's is an acceptable point of view in this field.


Hopefully you learned something from all of this.

Jocariah wrote:

This saddens me to say this, but I think clearly this Lakehurst woman is emotionally disturbed and by arguing with her, you may be doing her a disservice.

In her mind she thinks I am Satan and she somehow needs to save all of you from me. That makes her psychotic (delusional beliefs), as well.

I think now is the time to stop arguing with her about all of this.

Cheers
Jocariah

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Looks like this discussion has gotten the best of Jocariah ...lol

I never called you satan , but while we're on the subject .. who exactly is the spirit that contacts you and gives you the messages that are so strongly opposed to the God of our Bible? .... oh, so the being abducts you or contacts you .... and his main message is to "not believe in anything from the Bible" .... hmmm .... so he travels light years to find Jocariah and give her secret messages explaining that God isn't real and Jesus isn't the Savior of the world...and the Bible is to be ignored .... billions of light years across universes and galazxies to deliver this message to Jocariah !!! But the little alien can't get up the nerve to speak in public ... after coming all this way to warn us to stay away from God , the little alien decides he better only tell one little 12 yr old schoolgirl with pimples om her face named Jocariah .. brilliant theory.


hey ... we're all entitled to our own opinions right ?

Jocariah and her new best friend Pearl joined together to piss on christians and post personal attacks against a member of this board based soley on thier intolerance of christianity .... and they never have to put a thing about ufo's in their posts now.

Life is grand !



lets see if we can try and stay on-topic for now on and stay off of the personal attacks.

nobody is here to witness a fight over religions. lets try and keep our posts directed towards the relationship religion mighy have on the ufo topic , which is the reason I brought it up to begin with.


now when Jocariah says she is visited by a spirit or alien , and the alien tells her to post messages ridiculing Religious beliefs, well then thats an opening to respond back as to why that could fit into the description of satan trying to deceive us thru ufo/aliens .... but we don't need to beat up on somebody for being a christian, do you see the difference ?