Been there, done that, once.

kidflash2008 wrote:

Lakehurst

A church is a building and that is man's concoction. I can get more spirituality in the Rocky Mountains than I can going to a building. The Mother Goddess (Earth) is very beautiful and proves creation was not an accident. I feel love when I do go outdoors, and that includes a walk along the beach. When I walk in the woods, I take the time to spot the wild life in the area. When I go to my sister's house, I go outside and walk in her garden. That is where the Mother Goddess shines and proves She does love me and every one else. I look at the life around me and see nature and its beauty as all the proof I need of the Mother Goddess.
I also do not need a man in robes to tell me what right and wrong is either. Every group should go by the Golden Rule, and that is do to others as you would have them do unto you. If everyone went by that rule alone, the world would be in a much better place.

The Mother Goddess is the form the Creator of All Things takes on for me. I do not need rules and regulations to see the beauty of Creation around me. If some people do, more power to them.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd

Everything you say is great , and did you know that many of us christians feel the same way about Gods creation too? We too love nature and the outdoors, we too find peace and comfort in nature, I hope you aren't under the impression that christians don't enjoy the great outdoors.

I can accept your feelings stated above , you didn't attack my beliefs and try and belittle them or mock them, and thats how we should respect each others beliefs. In the past you and others here were taking shots at christianity, anmd thats why I took offense to them.

When I'm explaining why I'm a believer in christianity, I'm not doing it to try and force you to agree with me, I'm explaining so that you could have an understanding why we believers stand firm in our faith.

But looking at your words above , you still seem to have a habit of back-handing christianity in your subtle way when you say "You don't need men in robes telling you ...." do you see Lloyd how insulting that is to those of us who do go to church and find peace and enjoytment in praising God there?
Do you see how that can be taken as a slapdown to anyone who goes to church? of course you do, and thats my point. Why do you feel the need to attack the way we praise and worship God?

And what if that man was Jesus Christ himself that you were mocking and brushing aside? Would you have been one of the ones in the crowd yelling for his crucifiction because you can't stand "men in robes" telling you right from wrong ? you really have no justification for putting down christianity the way you do , I feel you should try and take the high road and give christians the same respect that you would want .

Actually, the crowd shouting for his crucifixion were mostly members of an organized religion who felt he had sinned against their religion. So if people have a bad impression of organized religion, perhaps it started there.

Lesley wrote:

Actually, the crowd shouting for his crucifixion were mostly members of an organized religion who felt he had sinned against their religion. So if people have a bad impression of organized religion, perhaps it started there.

And we all took part in it ... we as in mankind ...did our part in crucifying Jesus . And thats the point of Christianity , mankind cannot fix themselves ... no matter how many gardens lloyd walks thru or how many trees he hides behind ... sooner or later Lloyd will come face to face with the reality that God sent us a Savior in Jesus Christ , and Lloyd will bow before Jesus and confess with his tongue that Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords... The Bible states that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess ... humans are not capable of saving themselves from themselves ... we are sinners and all the walks in the woods won't change that fact about this world we live in. We all pray for peace and strive to spread the love of God , Lloyd should be smart enough to see that too among believers , those people sitting in church aren't wwhats wrong with the world, like I saids ... you don't have to be a christain, but you don't have to mock or attack christianity either... treat it with the same respect you would treat any other belief.

Lakehurst -- after so much talk about others attacking your religion, don't you think you are attacking Lloyds? Lloyd is free to believe as he wishes without being told how wrong he is or how he is going to hell. Don't you see that is no different than those here that don't believe in your religion? To me, it isn't so much of an attack as it is an opinion, but I would say the same about Alfred and Lloyd and yet you see many comments here as an attack or mocking, rather than just an opinion. It is your opinion that those that don't believe as you do are not going to be saved and it is the opinion of others that they don't need to believe as you do. You don't seem able to just let others have their own beliefs and yet you want everyone to be kind about yours.

Lesley wrote:

Lakehurst -- after so much talk about others attacking your religion, don't you think you are attacking Lloyds? Lloyd is free to believe as he wishes without being told how wrong he is or how he is going to hell. Don't you see that is no different than those here that don't believe in your religion? To me, it isn't so much of an attack as it is an opinion, but I would say the same about Alfred and Lloyd and yet you see many comments here as an attack or mocking, rather than just an opinion. It is your opinion that those that don't believe as you do are not going to be saved and it is the opinion of others that they don't need to believe as you do. You don't seem able to just let others have their own beliefs and yet you want everyone to be kind about yours.

I do want them to be able to do as they wish without having to defend myself ... but they all seem to take swipes at christianity first, which makes me react defensively. All I keep asking them is why they feel a need to put down christianity... and like you point out Lesley, if I do the same to their beliefs it gets ugly ...neither side is right to attack each others faith. I know I'm in the minority here, I know I'm amongst people who don not like organized religion or any mainstream christian beliefs, but I'm trying to point out that they should treat us christians exactly the same way they would like to be treated . The group / mob mentality incites them to attack organized religion because most of them dislike it , but can they see how they are doing what they ask others not to do to them?

Its a situatiion wherte I know I'm not going to change their minds and I'm not trying to ... my responses are to state my faith and stand firm in my beliefs even when under attack, I owe that much to God who has blessed me with so much, I will not bail and run because the crowd mentality doesn't lkike organized religions... I see it as them being hypocritical...they wouldn't like it when its done to them.


The religion topic keeps coming up in most discussions about our world ancestory , look at the history channel shows and many of them end up with religious beliefs being intertwined into mans history ... its not that i want to debate religious beliefs ..its that you can't get away from it when discussing past civilizations and the mysteries of our past.

I would like to wrap this discussion up by saying I hold no hard feelings towards anyone here , I love all of you for your own unique qualities, and I try and see God's love in all of you. I want nothing else than for all of God's children to know and share in his love. Our differences should never get in the way of treating each other with love and respect.

I went to church today (Catholic Mass) and prayed for everyone, including myself, family, and even those of you on this board who may not like me.

I received communion and ate the body and blood of our dear Savior Jesus Christ as he instructed us to do at the last supper. There was a visiting priest from a poor area of India who spoke of a great hunger and thirst there for the word of God and the faith of Christianity, many many peoples are continuing to join the Catholic church all around the world as peoples attain the ability to learn more about the different faiths in this current day we're living in. He asked for donations because the people are so poor that even basic neccessaties such as food and clothing are very needed, not to mention other things needed to learn about the faith, and the building of schools and places of worship for the people to gather in their hunger to learn more about God.

I hope Lloyd can try and understand that when he mocks or belittles a church as just a building , he is ignoring it's importance to the many good-hearted peoples who appreciate a place they can go to learn more and to worship with others to the God that they love. I ask that Lloyd try and look more at the spirituality of those peoples who are in church and not generalize them so much as "those christians" who just don't get it. Try and see the good in each other, and try to understand that their faith and beliefs do not need criticism just because you don't happen to like organized religion.



I hope you all take the time to read the book by Janice Connell , "THE VISIONS OF THE CHILDREN" .

You are all thirsting for contact from outside this world, well here's something that is going on right now, today ... where thge six children / now adults have been in constant contact with the Mother of Jesus, and her messages to all of mankind about what God wants from us.

Read it with an open mind and see if it doesn't make you think twice about your thoughts on the Catholic church.

I am not mocking the building or the people in it. I am just stating I do not need that to pray or meditate. I think it even states in the Bible about those who pray in public are fools.

As others have stated kindly for me, I do not need anyone to belittle my beliefs as I do not belittle yours.

I will pray to the Mother Goddess for your peace of mind, Lakehurst.

I also think this topic has been detoured too much lately, as this is supposed to be about an alien abduction, not conversion to Catholicism.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd

"I also think this topic has been detoured too much lately,
as this is supposed to be about an alien abduction, not conversion to Catholicism."

Some, not myself as it turns out, would argue these may be the same thing. A'int that a hoot? On point still, if so, though, eh?

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com

kidflash2008 wrote:

I am not mocking the building or the people in it. I am just stating I do not need that to pray or meditate. I think it even states in the Bible about those who pray in public are fools.

As others have stated kindly for me, I do not need anyone to belittle my beliefs as I do not belittle yours.

I will pray to the Mother Goddess for your peace of mind, Lakehurst.

I also think this topic has been detoured too much lately, as this is supposed to be about an alien abduction, not conversion to Catholicism.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd

Well at least you're showing your true angry colors Lloyd , you can't help yourself , you just have to respond in a mean-spirited hateful way towards Catholics because of some dark angry thing deep inside your own heart .. it comes out everytime you write about it , maybe you don't see it but any impartial observer would agree with me.
You try and come off as someone above it all , but the more you write about your true feelings about christianity it shows you deep level of intolerance and hatred for our beliefs.
You keep saying you do not belittle my beliefs, but you keep doing it anyway ... are you able to look at yourself honestly and see how your words are used to cut? Why does my faith cause such anger from you?

Go back and see how it was you who first wrote your angry opinions about why you disliked christianity .... and then you have the nerve to say that you don't belittle my faith? You already did , but you're not honest enough to admit it Lloyd.

I'll continue praying for you Lloyd and hope that you can let go of your angry feelings towards christianity , it's eating away at your insides brother. Its not healthy .

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

"I also think this topic has been detoured too much lately,
as this is supposed to be about an alien abduction, not conversion to Catholicism."

Some, not myself as it turns out, would argue these may be the same thing. A'int that a hoot? On point still, if so, though, eh?

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com

Good point ... most of the history channel shows on ancient civilization, pyramids, myans, ufo's , etc ... eventually lead into a discussion about religion and how the two might be related.

Lloyd and anyone else who gets easily offended by christianity or any other organized religion needs to try and understand that they can't suffer a meltdown everytime the religion aspect comes up , its something in their own hearts they need to heal that makes them act so angrily towards any mention of religion ... Lloyd really has some serious anger issues over religion , I don't know what happened to him in his past, but he needs to learn to be tolerant of the people who follow those faiths.

If Lloyd would follow his own advice everything would be cool ... treat others as you want to be treated .

It's a new day , and what do you say we all start off with a new attitude?

Let us show the world and the universe we live in, that we humans are capable of getting along with each other. Let us all try and be good examples to others in the world and in the universe. If a group of ufo enthusiasts can't even get along on a message board because of their different opinions , how can anyone here seriously discuss the possibility of other life forms getting along with us , or even wanting to contact us. I think this was Mike Goods point.

Maybe we should take President Obama's advice and get together for a beer ... work things out as we get intoxicated !

Maybe myself, Lloyd, Fixer, Out of Touch, and Alfred can find a bar centrally located for all of us to meet at so we can drink alcohol together and discuss our differences .... that ought to fix everything.

I'll buy the first round of shots , but thats it ... Alfred can probably pay for the rest . He can probably get a better value if he orders pitchers of shots and beers though, I'll try and suggest that to him once we sit together at the bar... or maybe we should get a booth in the back incase we want to share any books or documents with each other.
Can you guys meet me in New Jersey?

It is interesting that you misread what I have stated constantly, Lakehurst. Now I am an angry person who hates Christians and Catholics?

Did you get that one from what I stated about Jesus stating in the Bible about people who pray in public being fools? He always stated prayer should be done in private and away from crowds. I do not need to go into a building to meditate or pray. I can do it in a field or in my room and get the same results.

I have no problem with the ancient belief systems of the ancients. I also have no problem with the Gnostic side of Christianity which was abandoned for the materialistic dogma that runs the religion now.

I have no hatred for anyone or their beliefs. I do not agree with the beliefs of Christians, but I do not hate them or mock them.

Again, I am a Pagan and proud of it. I am also very tolerant of other people's religious or non-religious beliefs.

BTW, what part of what I wrote made you think I was angry and mocking?

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd

Lakehurst, I am currently researching the places in the Bible where Jesus states it that a fool prays in public.

I am also researching where it states in the Bible that there are other ways to get Enlightenment.

I agree we need to get together for a root beer (I don't drink alcohol). I think there are many misunderstandings between what we are trying to convey. Angry and bitter I am not.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd

Lloyd,
Keep in mind that the Catholic Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God , where we are gathered together to eat the Bread of Life.

This may be a little different than what you are referring to as "praying in public" with self-centered , egotistical underlying motives.

Catholics pray in private all the time , in their homes, in their gardens, sitting at the beach, driving in their cars... and also in churches. We can't see inside everyones hearts to judge their intents and we don't want to judge anyone else anyway.. where a person prays is their business... we should be happy someone is praying at all, whether it is in a church or in the woods , lets be happy the person is seeking the love and peace of God , I think we could both agree to that much.

As far as believers gathering at church so that they can celebrate the Mass and receive communion ... you have to try and understand that they are there for that reason , hopefully, and not to put on a false facade that says "look at me, I'm praying in public, do you all see me" , but I understand your point that there are people who just go thru the motions with no real spirituality , but thats not the way the Catholic church wants you to approach the Mass , unfortunately people aren't perfect, but the church and faith shouldn't be dismissed because of how some people act.

The real reason we are all standing in church is to at least spend one day a week where we go to the altar of God and receive his body and blood like he requested us to do.

"take this all of you and eat it, this is my body which will be given up for you, it is the body of the new covenant so that sins may be forgiven, it is for you and for all men , do this in memory of me"....Jesus said.

In the old testemant God used the blood of the sacrificial lamb who the israelites were directed to sacrifice ...that was the old covenant. You've heard of the Passover where they applied the blood of the lamb to their doorposts while in bondage in Egypt so that death would pass over their homes... well we go to church to receieve the body and blood of the sacrificial Lamb of God Jesus Christ, he is our Bread of Life.

God gave the jews the bread of life in the form of manna dropped down from heaven to feed them and sustain them and give them life .... now Jesus is our bread of life, we eat the Eucharist at church , we are not really there to show people that we are praying , most of us do our praying in private.

Here's a good link which explains why Catholics are eating the body and blood of the Lamb of God Jesus Christ, in the form of the Eucharist.
This is the main reson Catholics are gathered in church together , not so much as you infer that they are praying in public , but to gather for the Holy Meal , like you might gather with family or loved ones for supper.


http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/ech.html

Well I agree that you should try the hypnosis. In the event its happend more than once. You also may beable to figure out what the conditions are before they happen. It may not be your mind blocking what happend. They mabe doing it . At any rate if the hypnosis makes you remember and you deside you dont want those memories then use hypnosis to forget the memories. I would hope they can do that. Have it recorded and let your partner listen to it 1st. If there is something found they think is to rough for you then dont listen to it Well good luck I hope you get to the bottom of this

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

That's what I like about the psychedelic revival and the interest in alternate states of consciousness for individuals, Lesley. See, I suspect that a connection with the spiritual, even God, must be of needs an unmistakable and private personal connection where this conjectured God manifests itself individually for the individual.

God is not delivered by organized ministries, codified religions, conveniently translated text, or the eager proselytizing of fervid persons prosecuting their own conjectures and requiring your validation to bolster that conjecture. Sincerely, I don't expect that God needs to hide in untested faith but that God would be unequivocal and unmistakable and right up in your face. Speak "the word" directly to the individual — apart from the ceaselessly smirking testament of some whining acolyte fundamentalist, eh? Everyone is Moses, or no one is.

Wrong again! If Alfred would take the time to read Gods own words, he might get enlightened on the subject. All we can do is pray for Alfred, each individual will determine his or her own fate and whether they enter heaven or hell. The more you reject God in this life, the more easily you will choose hell when your spirit leaves your body upon death ... do you see how it's each of us who determines our own fate and destiny? Alfred can spend his whole life rejecting God and mocking those who seek God's love ... but in the end Alfred is only sealing his own fate, and thats the sad thing Alfred doesn't understand.

...AND THEN...

Quote :

...you didn't attack my beliefs and try and belittle them or mock them, and thats how we should respect each others beliefs.

Would that be an example of respecting Alfred's beliefs?

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Here's a good link which explains why Catholics are eating the body and blood of the Lamb of God Jesus Christ, in the form of the Eucharist.
This is the main reson Catholics are gathered in church together , not so much as you infer that they are praying in public , but to gather for the Holy Meal , like you might gather with family or loved ones for supper.


http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/ech.html

Is there going to be something in that link that explains the reason Catholics eat the blood and the body metaphorically is because it's better than cannibalism and ritual animal sacrifice?

Lakehurst will not be answering because she was banned quite a while back. For obvious reasons, mostly wanting people to respect her religion (to the point of agreeing) while not respecting anybody else's religion, beliefs or non-beliefs.

D'oh. Always late to the party.