ufos and religon

i have been thinking about this for a long time. if allians are real that means there is no god. but more i thoght about it the more it became open to me mybe god him self is an alian. think about it he creatid the erth. achent celvlizeations talk about pepole coming from the hevens. what do you think.

alex45 wrote:

i have been thinking about this for a long time. if allians are real that means there is no god. but more i thoght about it the more it became open to me mybe god him self is an alian. think about it he creatid the erth. achent celvlizeations talk about pepole coming from the hevens. what do you think.

Alex, if you get a chance you may want to read some of the threads in the section named "leftovers" down at the bottom of the home-page, some of the threads deal with your question.

NJ

I personally believe that all religions are man-made. If there is a god, no religion on this earth can do justice in describing him/her. As for christianity, of which i was once a subscriber, there is much evidence to support that this character Jesus never existed, thus nullifying this religion. If you don't believe me, read the 'Christ Conspiracy' or watch the 'God that Never Was.' This character was built from previous deities (ex. Osiris).

The discovery of ET life could go one of two ways in my opinion; 1) people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self-discovery 2) these ETs may have FOUND god and want to share him/her with us

trevorl314 wrote:

I personally believe that all religions are man-made. If there is a god, no religion on this earth can do justice in describing him/her. As for christianity, of which i was once a subscriber, there is much evidence to support that this character Jesus never existed, thus nullifying this religion. If you don't believe me, read the 'Christ Conspiracy' or watch the 'God that Never Was.' This character was built from previous deities (ex. Osiris).

The discovery of ET life could go one of two ways in my opinion; 1) people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self-discovery 2) these ETs may have FOUND god and want to share him/her with us

The main problem with that theory is that the ET's have shown no love or righteousness in their dealings with mankind, only perverse sexual hybrid breeding programs and use of deception. In all the years they've been dealing with us, they have not made anything better , the world is spiraling out of control towards all the things the bible warned us would happen before Jesus return. So far the bible has been very accurate regarding world events , while the ET's have shown us nothing in the way of solving any world problems.

As for your first point "people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self discovery" .. well I believe thats already taking place. You just said that you have left christianity ... where as I and other believers have only reinforced our beliefs as these things reveal themselves. So it will all come down to who you believe ... the ET'S , or the Bible and its message of Jesus and its warning of deception in the end times.

I respect you for your decision, and hopefully you respect believers for theirs.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

trevorl314 wrote:

I personally believe that all religions are man-made. If there is a god, no religion on this earth can do justice in describing him/her. As for christianity, of which i was once a subscriber, there is much evidence to support that this character Jesus never existed, thus nullifying this religion. If you don't believe me, read the 'Christ Conspiracy' or watch the 'God that Never Was.' This character was built from previous deities (ex. Osiris).

The discovery of ET life could go one of two ways in my opinion; 1) people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self-discovery 2) these ETs may have FOUND god and want to share him/her with us

The main problem with that theory is that the ET's have shown no love or righteousness in their dealings with mankind, only perverse sexual hybrid breeding programs and use of deception. In all the years they've been dealing with us, they have not made anything better , the world is spiraling out of control towards all the things the bible warned us would happen before Jesus return. So far the bible has been very accurate regarding world events , while the ET's have shown us nothing in the way of solving any world problems.

As for your first point "people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self discovery" .. well I believe thats already taking place. You just said that you have left christianity ... where as I and other believers have only reinforced our beliefs as these things reveal themselves. So it will all come down to who you believe ... the ET'S , or the Bible and its message of Jesus and its warning of deception in the end times.

I respect you for your decision, and hopefully you respect believers for theirs.

I have encountered your beliefs before and I'm sorry you have not educated yourself enough to realize that the bible is flawed. If the creator authored that book then he is obviously the author of confusion as evident in the many divisions you christians have created amongst yourselves with the denominations. Furthermore, the world has been ending since it started. There have been creatures on this planet for millions, maybe billions of years and they come and go, just as I suspect man will.

You speak of abductions as a reality, when in fact, there is no conclusive evidence that any ET is taking anyone. People are experiencing things yes, but not ONE abductee has any verifiable proof of aliens taking them.

I imagine that if ET is here and they hear the religious people's arguments they will be turned off from even communicating with us.

Peace to you!

I should state, I am not working for the devil, nor am I confused or lost. I am not a "fool" as your bible suggests either. I don't know if there is a god, but I deduce from experience and from my own self-education into religion and science that if there is a god, he wouldn't mind me asking a few questions.

Quote :

The main problem with that theory is that the ET's have shown no love or righteousness in their dealings with mankind, only perverse sexual hybrid breeding programs and use of deception. In all the years they've been dealing with us, they have not made anything better , the world is spiraling out of control towards all the things the bible warned us would happen before Jesus return. So far the bible has been very accurate regarding world events , while the ET's have shown us nothing in the way of solving any world problems.

I have to disagree with that. While that is mostly true in reference to the Greys, there are many people who claim to have had enlightening experiences with alien beings.

Aside from that, why exactly should any ET race solve or help solve mankind's problems? Isn't that part of growing and evolving, solving your own problems?

There does seem to be those who claim that proof of aliens would be proof that God does not exist. This does seem to be contrary to the message most major religions are stating today. The Catholic Church has issued statements stating that aliens may be real, and that they do not contradict with their teachings.

There are also others (like me) who think the human race has lost its spiritual side and embraced the materialism that is all around us. We have lost our connection to nature and the living beings that are all around us.

Since we do not really know much about the aliens (other than eyewitness accounts that have yet to be proven), we do not know what spiritual beliefs they hold. Many claim to know, but have yet to produce an alien to verify them.

TREVOR replied ..... I have encountered your beliefs before and I'm sorry you have not educated yourself enough to realize that the bible is flawed.


well now you're being disrespectful , i can just as easily post personal barbs and taunts at you , but it isn't the mature way to discuss things is it?

I said that I respect you for your beliefs , and asked if you can respect me for my beliefs.

No reason we all can't talk nice to each other here , instead of the personal shots , just try and stick to the topic being discussed ... if you believe the bible is flawed thats cool, i'm not trying to force anything on you, but at least tell us what part is flawed so we know what you're talking about... i'm interested in the relationship between ufology and the bible , i'm not here to convert you or anyone else , so don't take it the wrong way.

trevor posts .... You speak of abductions as a reality, when in fact, there is no conclusive evidence that any ET is taking anyone. People are experiencing things yes, but not ONE abductee has any verifiable proof of aliens taking them.



We're just talking , thats all. Nobody here is saying they have the proof of anything, we'rer just sharing ideas and opinions on the whole subject. Many people do believe there are abductions taking place , I'm just offering my opinion on what it might mean from a christian perspective .... no reason to get yourself all upset , I don't think anyone is here to debate religion, thats not my intent, I'm just giving my opinion on what et's and abductions could mean from a christian perspective. I'm not looking to fight you over religion, chill out.

trevorl314 wrote:

I should state, I am not working for the devil, nor am I confused or lost. I am not a "fool" as your bible suggests either. I don't know if there is a god, but I deduce from experience and from my own self-education into religion and science that if there is a god, he wouldn't mind me asking a few questions.

Asking questions and sharing opinions is why we're all here discussing this , just try not to get so offended because I'm a believer in the Bible , it shouldn't cause you to react angry towards me , I'm not trying to convert you, I'm trying to discuss ufo's .... lol

Lesley wrote:

Quote :

The main problem with that theory is that the ET's have shown no love or righteousness in their dealings with mankind, only perverse sexual hybrid breeding programs and use of deception. In all the years they've been dealing with us, they have not made anything better , the world is spiraling out of control towards all the things the bible warned us would happen before Jesus return. So far the bible has been very accurate regarding world events , while the ET's have shown us nothing in the way of solving any world problems.

I have to disagree with that. While that is mostly true in reference to the Greys, there are many people who claim to have had enlightening experiences with alien beings.

Aside from that, why exactly should any ET race solve or help solve mankind's problems? Isn't that part of growing and evolving, solving your own problems?

Hi Lesley,

Yes , I did make a mistake when I referred to "any and all" ET's as having bad intents, I don't know that for a fact because I haven't met with all of the ET's out there .. lol

As you pointed out, I was referring mostly to what I've heard about the grays.

the nice ET's could be "good angels" like those mentioned in the bible appearing at different times.

A new poster had put a long message up about how the grays were behind a deception scheme where they are using "other different looking ET's" to carry their deception out, maybe that was on my mind when I posted my thoughts. But I shouldn't have made a blanket statement about all et's .. so I take that back.

As far as why the ET's would be involved with us ... well I guess most of the stories I've heard and read about have sounded harsh and cold (mostly grays accounts), the other stories of "nice aliens" always seems to steer the message away from God from what I've read about ... and it raises suspicions about their intent. Maybe I haven't read enough of them to make a fair judgement , but from what I know of right now I just don't get a good vibe . I can appreciate your thought though , if they are truly innocent beings with no ill motives or agenda , why would they change anything ... its a good point.

kidflash2008 wrote:

There does seem to be those who claim that proof of aliens would be proof that God does not exist. This does seem to be contrary to the message most major religions are stating today. The Catholic Church has issued statements stating that aliens may be real, and that they do not contradict with their teachings.

There are also others (like me) who think the human race has lost its spiritual side and embraced the materialism that is all around us. We have lost our connection to nature and the living beings that are all around us.

Since we do not really know much about the aliens (other than eyewitness accounts that have yet to be proven), we do not know what spiritual beliefs they hold. Many claim to know, but have yet to produce an alien to verify them.

Good points! As a catholic myself, I feel its a good thing to be involved in these discussions, not because i'm trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking or my beliefs, but because its good to hear all sides of the subject, from all perspectives. the new age movement with people channeling spirits shouldn't have the only say on the subject, the et/ufo topic could end up being a major part of the whole biblical account of mankind and how the story plays out at the end ... I think its totally valid to consider this piece of the puzzle in any ufo discussion.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

kidflash2008 wrote:

There does seem to be those who claim that proof of aliens would be proof that God does not exist. This does seem to be contrary to the message most major religions are stating today. The Catholic Church has issued statements stating that aliens may be real, and that they do not contradict with their teachings.

There are also others (like me) who think the human race has lost its spiritual side and embraced the materialism that is all around us. We have lost our connection to nature and the living beings that are all around us.

Since we do not really know much about the aliens (other than eyewitness accounts that have yet to be proven), we do not know what spiritual beliefs they hold. Many claim to know, but have yet to produce an alien to verify them.

Good points! As a catholic myself, I feel its a good thing to be involved in these discussions, not because i'm trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking or my beliefs, but because its good to hear all sides of the subject, from all perspectives. the new age movement with people channeling spirits shouldn't have the only say on the subject, the et/ufo topic could end up being a major part of the whole biblical account of mankind and how the story plays out at the end ... I think its totally valid to consider this piece of the puzzle in any ufo discussion.

You're right, no need to get ugly and really that was not my intention. I grew up in a christian home and after educating myself on religion in general I felt like many years were stolen from me because of it. So I'm a little bitter in that regard. I hope you find the truth in your journey. It is a journey we all take alone.

Quote :

Hi Lesley,

Yes , I did make a mistake when I referred to "any and all" ET's as having bad intents, I don't know that for a fact because I haven't met with all of the ET's out there .. lol

As you pointed out, I was referring mostly to what I've heard about the grays.

the nice ET's could be "good angels" like those mentioned in the bible appearing at different times.

A new poster had put a long message up about how the grays were behind a deception scheme where they are using "other different looking ET's" to carry their deception out, maybe that was on my mind when I posted my thoughts. But I shouldn't have made a blanket statement about all et's .. so I take that back.

As far as why the ET's would be involved with us ... well I guess most of the stories I've heard and read about have sounded harsh and cold (mostly grays accounts), the other stories of "nice aliens" always seems to steer the message away from God from what I've read about ... and it raises suspicions about their intent. Maybe I haven't read enough of them to make a fair judgement , but from what I know of right now I just don't get a good vibe . I can appreciate your thought though , if they are truly innocent beings with no ill motives or agenda , why would they change anything ... its a good point.

OK, so now I just find myself having to ask -- why does it have to be angels or demons? Where is the bible does it say that God only created those beings? Myself, and assuming there is a God, I see that being as a creator. A creator is always creating so I see it as an expanding universe that may create other beings. Also, I see nothing out of the ordinary about these beings. If we could go to other less evolved worlds, I have no doubt we would do many of the same things to them, as reported of the Greys doing to us. So in a sense I think we would do the same things you accuse demons of doings. It isn't like we have never experimented -- we do so every day with animals and have done such to human beings as well.

I hope you don't take that the wrong way. I am not trying to go after you for your religion.

Lesley ...... "I hope you don't take that the wrong way."


Thanks Lesley. No, I knew coming in that I would need to be careful not to take any of the reactions to my perspective as "attacks against me personally", it's a very sensitive topic once religion and belief systems are introduced into the ufo discussion, so I'll do my best to try and keep it calm and enjoyable as we bounce our different views and opinions back and forth on the subject. I do understand that the religion perspective can grind on some peoples nerves, so I'll try and be understanding of that too.

The main reason why I tread with caution on the ET subject is because the Bible does tell of how satan and the other fallen angels who rebelled so long ago were cast down to the earth, and how they rule the air , have the capability to do amazing things that humans cannot do, etc. , and that their ultimate goal will be to deceive mankind and try and steer as many children of God away from him before the end .... it all just strikes me as odd that the UFO/ET phenomenon seems to fit into this warning almost to a tee.

When I raise certain points about sightings, abductions, etc , I'm just trying to show how it might fit into what the Bible has warned about ... of course I could be wrong too, but I do have a very strong gut feeling that something isn't jiving with the ET experience to convince me that "all is well" and that they don't have some sinister hidden agenda.

Satan doesn't want anyone to follow God, he is at war with God over the inhabitants of the earth. Satan is more than capable of appearing as intellegent ET's and sugar-coating his message and lacing it with nice messages of "you can be a god"...."we can all be gods" ... "reject the message of Jesus as the Savior of the human race, you don't need a savior" ... in a nut-shell this is what got satan into trouble to begin with when he rebelled against God , so to me it makes sense that if an ET is giving a similar message that coaxes people away from the Biblical account of things, and steers them in a direction of rejecting the biblical story of God, it would fit in exactly with what the bible warned about on how satan would attempt to deceive mankind ... I really can't think of a better plan of deception than that if its true. It already looks like its working "Big-time".

In the end its told that satan would bring a hybrid-type of person into mankind known as the anti-christ ... where he would demand that people possibly reject religion in order to be part of the new world order, to buy and sell goods, etc ... he would demand that mankind worship him instead of Jesus .. etc, ..... my point is that if the ET's are related to the warning of the bible, then we need to discern what message they're giving and try and see if it is attempting to steer us away from worshipping God, as most humans do.

I don't see it as a stretch to imagine satan using ufology to deceive mankind, but I'm also trying to keep an open mind towards all possibilities too, as you and others have pointed out.

The main thing I look for is ... "you can judge a tree by its fruit" ... try and see what the fruit is on the ET tree , what are they doing, what is their message, etc.

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:

Lesley ...... "I hope you don't take that the wrong way."


Thanks Lesley. No, I knew coming in that I would need to be careful not to take any of the reactions to my perspective as "attacks against me personally", it's a very sensitive topic once religion and belief systems are introduced into the ufo discussion, so I'll do my best to try and keep it calm and enjoyable as we bounce our different views and opinions back and forth on the subject. I do understand that the religion perspective can grind on some peoples nerves, so I'll try and be understanding of that too.

The main reason why I tread with caution on the ET subject is because the Bible does tell of how satan and the other fallen angels who rebelled so long ago were cast down to the earth, and how they rule the air , have the capability to do amazing things that humans cannot do, etc. , and that their ultimate goal will be to deceive mankind and try and steer as many children of God away from him before the end .... it all just strikes me as odd that the UFO/ET phenomenon seems to fit into this warning almost to a tee.

When I raise certain points about sightings, abductions, etc , I'm just trying to show how it might fit into what the Bible has warned about ... of course I could be wrong too, but I do have a very strong gut feeling that something isn't jiving with the ET experience to convince me that "all is well" and that they don't have some sinister hidden agenda.

Satan doesn't want anyone to follow God, he is at war with God over the inhabitants of the earth. Satan is more than capable of appearing as intellegent ET's and sugar-coating his message and lacing it with nice messages of "you can be a god"...."we can all be gods" ... "reject the message of Jesus as the Savior of the human race, you don't need a savior" ... in a nut-shell this is what got satan into trouble to begin with when he rebelled against God , so to me it makes sense that if an ET is giving a similar message that coaxes people away from the Biblical account of things, and steers them in a direction of rejecting the biblical story of God, it would fit in exactly with what the bible warned about on how satan would attempt to deceive mankind ... I really can't think of a better plan of deception than that if its true. It already looks like its working "Big-time".

In the end its told that satan would bring a hybrid-type of person into mankind known as the anti-christ ... where he would demand that people possibly reject religion in order to be part of the new world order, to buy and sell goods, etc ... he would demand that mankind worship him instead of Jesus .. etc, ..... my point is that if the ET's are related to the warning of the bible, then we need to discern what message they're giving and try and see if it is attempting to steer us away from worshipping God, as most humans do.

I don't see it as a stretch to imagine satan using ufology to deceive mankind, but I'm also trying to keep an open mind towards all possibilities too, as you and others have pointed out.

The main thing I look for is ... "you can judge a tree by its fruit" ... try and see what the fruit is on the ET tree , what are they doing, what is their message, etc.

From what I can tell, the ETs aren't the threat. Nuclear and biological weapons are the threat and guess where they come from? MAN!

The only thing that disclosure or an alien landing on the White House lawn would prove is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It would prove we are not alone, and that would change the course of our thought processes. We could also learn what their religious beliefs they would have, if any.

Personally, I am into the nuts and bolts of UFOs. I want to know if we really have been visited by aliens. Although there is evidence, there is still no proof or smoking gun. Once proof aliens have visited us has been verified, then we could get into the spiritual and dogma side of the debate. Let's prove that flying saucers are among us first.

kidflash2008 wrote:

The only thing that disclosure or an alien landing on the White House lawn would prove is that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. It would prove we are not alone, and that would change the course of our thought processes. We could also learn what their religious beliefs they would have, if any.

Personally, I am into the nuts and bolts of UFOs. I want to know if we really have been visited by aliens. Although there is evidence, there is still no proof or smoking gun. Once proof aliens have visited us has been verified, then we could get into the spiritual and dogma side of the debate. Let's prove that flying saucers are among us first.

Flying saucers exist without question. We have photographs, physical traces with eyewitness testimony, and even documentation detailing accounts with saucers and military pilots. The question is, are any of them ET. I think so.

I agree with the statement that UFOs and flying saucers exist. The question is are they ET? I think there is much evidence that points in that direction. There have been some excellent cases that support such a hypothesis.

However, there is no concrete proof or smoking gun to show they are extraterrestrial.

I also think the government has a few saucers and/or alien probes in their possession, but that number is much smaller than what many researchers think and claim.

trevorl314 wrote:

I personally believe that all religions are man-made. If there is a god, no religion on this earth can do justice in describing him/her. As for christianity, of which i was once a subscriber, there is much evidence to support that this character Jesus never existed, thus nullifying this religion. If you don't believe me, read the 'Christ Conspiracy' or watch the 'God that Never Was.' This character was built from previous deities (ex. Osiris).

The discovery of ET life could go one of two ways in my opinion; 1) people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self-discovery 2) these ETs may have FOUND god and want to share him/her with us

I agree with much of what you've posted in this thread.

I don't understand how some (as shown here, and elsewhere) can write ETs as being demons without the chance of them being anything else. I think there is a very high probability of life other than we humans. Too, our perceptions of God/Higher Power is so limited. There's so much we don't understand, that we don't fully know the origins of ~ if we keep our minds closed we're never going to learn the truth. An open mind is a good thing, imo

Pearl wrote:

trevorl314 wrote:

I personally believe that all religions are man-made. If there is a god, no religion on this earth can do justice in describing him/her. As for christianity, of which i was once a subscriber, there is much evidence to support that this character Jesus never existed, thus nullifying this religion. If you don't believe me, read the 'Christ Conspiracy' or watch the 'God that Never Was.' This character was built from previous deities (ex. Osiris).

The discovery of ET life could go one of two ways in my opinion; 1) people will question their beliefs and start a mission of self-discovery 2) these ETs may have FOUND god and want to share him/her with us

I agree with much of what you've posted in this thread.

I don't understand how some (as shown here, and elsewhere) can write ETs as being demons without the chance of them being anything else. I think there is a very high probability of life other than we humans. Too, our perceptions of God/Higher Power is so limited. There's so much we don't understand, that we don't fully know the origins of ~ if we keep our minds closed we're never going to learn the truth. An open mind is a good thing, imo

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I never said that they are definitely fallen angels, demons or of satan , I simply say that we must have an open mind towards that possbility until we know for sure. The bible does teach us that there is life other than humans, they are called angels and some of those angels are bad and some are good. To close your mind to this is to not be of an open mind.
you state that an open mind is a "good thing" , well thats exactly what I'm saying too ... some things are good and some things are bad ... we don't yet know enough about the ET's agenda , all we can go by is what little we know so far , and some of it raises questions about whether they are really good. I agree with you, an open mind is good !

That's true, Lake, they can be anything. It will be interesting to find out what they actually are.

I didn't mean to sound snarky, and apologize if that's how I came across.

Pearl wrote:

That's true, Lake, they can be anything. It will be interesting to find out what they actually are.

I didn't mean to sound snarky, and apologize if that's how I came across.

No problem, I'm just trying to be extra clear with everybody because I know I'm a huge underdog in this setting, christianity does not seem to be a welcomed theory in ufology so I'm just trying to be clear about my theories and possible explanations ... the more different theories the better chance we help open each others minds up to all the possibilities out there. This is all about the UFO's and what it might mean , I'm not here to try and convert anyone, I realize its a sore subject amongst most ufology fans , but I believe its a theory that needs to be considered. So far in all I've learned about the subject of ufology, I have yet to see any other credible explanations that make more sense than what the bible says... but I'm still looking and searching with an open mind.

It is probable that the aliens who have visited us are millions (if not billions) of years more advanced than we are. While there are some probable UFO sightings in the Bible and other religious writings, it is too hard to separate the myth from the reality from such sources.

We can only speculate as to what, if any, belief systems the extraterrestrials have.

While the fallen angels idea is interesting, it will be laughed off by the scientific community, which does not believe in anything paranormal or supernatural.