Roswell Resolved:

Resolved: The facts of Roswell point to an actual occurrence of the highest strangeness.

Yessir, somethin' happened near Roswell in the stormy summer of 1947.

Lots of folks say so. Their stories jibe together in a coherent way. Many of these people told their stories on their death beds, or very late in life. What do such people have to "gain" by telling tall tales? The unbroken chain of government lies and duplicity surrounding the case point to something hidden.

But high strangeness? I don't know about that. The stories point to something material. That does not fit my definition of high strangeness. That points to something firmly in our material human experiential reality. To my mind high strangeness is something which crosses the line between our material sensory experience and our more fuzzy conscious experience. Crashed "ships" in the desert do not do that. They are firmly planted in the material.

If Roswell is the nuts and bolts answer to rational materialist UFOlogy's wet-dreams, then it only represents the tip of a much larger and stranger iceberg. I think there is more here than meets the eye, or the enchanted desert floor of beautiful New Mexico.

As Einstein said: "Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted."

Strangeness lies in the territories where "beyond here monsters and dragons dwell". Roswell is on this side of that line, in my opinion....

but there can be both -- high strangeness by Mike's definition and nuts and bolts craft and visitors from elsewhere. Likely most people would consider nuts and bolts visitors strange enough, but Mike has to look beyond that for strange.

Lesley wrote:

but there can be both -- high strangeness by Mike's definition and nuts and bolts craft and visitors from elsewhere. Likely most people would consider nuts and bolts visitors strange enough, but Mike has to look beyond that for strange.

Thanks Lesley,

For the record, I have no problem with the nuts and bolts theory. If Roswell happened, clearly something nuts and bolts had a collision with the dross of our material reality. But we need not dig deep into the UFO mythos to find stuff that is far stranger than alien space ships crashing in the desert.

( I really dig that emoticon dude!)

For many years I had been thinking that much of the UFO phenomenon points to an immaterial source. In the past few years reading about quantum physics, the holographic universe, how the nature of the quantum field and our material reality (which springs from it) is NOT material at all, but a malleable yet persistent construct of consciousness and then books and articles by Graham Hancock (Supernatural), Rick Strassman, Terence McKenna and Aeolus Kephas have essentially made materiality seem less relevant in those big metaphysical questions.

Personally, I think UFOlogy has accepted our culturally approved, materialist vision of reality and applied that to something that is not necessarily an integral part of THAT reality. As Al would say, "there is there there." But it is not the there that we reflexively expect.

Until we get to grips with the true nature of reality, our understanding of things within and without it are only feeble gropings in the dark. It is a bit like trying to measure the height of the Eiffel Tower using only your sense of smell. We do not have the proper tools or methodology for getting a handle on such things.

As Shakespeare said, "There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophies." .....

"Felt Presence"

Does this apply do you think?

"UFOs are, by definition, change, and point to realities of much more breadth and scope — potential and expansiveness. At the same time it gets no easier to maintain a façade of normalcy for the cowardly denial of a niggardly few. Consequently, I seek my own questions though the answers offend me, shock me, or shame me. In the first place it's not always offense, shock, and shame. In the second, there is joy beyond the shame, satisfaction beyond the shock, and fellowship beyond the offense...!"

A kind of "why we fight," or why contest the "unwinnable" contest... because of the "felt presence of the moment" along the way and the quality of same. Forget the destination; there is only the journey. It's a bitch waking up to the fact you're not the jewel in creation's crown, but real capacity is, I'll bet, so much more than what is presently enjoyed as best, eh?

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Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

Does this apply do you think?

"UFOs are, by definition, change, and point to realities of much more breadth and scope — potential and expansiveness. At the same time it gets no easier to maintain a façade of normalcy for the cowardly denial of a niggardly few. Consequently, I seek my own questions though the answers offend me, shock me, or shame me. In the first place it's not always offense, shock, and shame. In the second, there is joy beyond the shame, satisfaction beyond the shock, and fellowship beyond the offense...!"

A kind of "why we fight," or why contest the "unwinnable" contest... because of the "felt presence of the moment" along the way and the quality of same. Forget the destination; there is only the journey. It's a bitch waking up to the fact you're not the jewel in creation's crown, but real capacity is, I'll bet, so much more than what is presently enjoyed as best, eh?

Indubitably! Al, once again I find myself agreeing with you. It must be that old guy - outside the box - thing. Eh?

Once one recognizes that they cannot expect to fully comprehend the incomprehensible, then the whole thing becomes a lovely trip into the decidedly real "fantasy" that flows through our senses and neural synapses - perchance to dream-up a new vision of what that experience might be. All is just vibrations formed by consciousness. "Real" is a hallucination. And the "hallucination"? - most decidedly real.

The UFO, perhaps even the "nuts and bolts" ones, are not necessarily a part of that human experiential happenstance we euphemistically call "reality". If the material world is a phantasm, then what is that odd thing from outside phantasm-ville? It is a small piece of the infinite leaving its calling card. It is Shakespeare mocking Horatio for his small-mindedness.

It is an invitation to re-vision that suddenly small maelstrom of electro-magnetic impulses flowing through our cerebral cortex. The UFO is not so much a thing as it is a challenge - a cognitive choice. It is asking, no imploring us, to choose between the proscribed boundaries of our limiting human belief systems and the extended reality that lies in that realm where dragons and monsters dwell....

My feeling is that the UFO is an invitation to become a philosopher of the infinite, because studying it like an insect pinned in a glass case will not necessarily improve our "understanding". The universal beckons - while our small human world lives out its somnambulist dream.

Been there, done that. The T-shirt never made me feel very special.

That is why the UFO is so cool. Dig?

I just got done reading the Roswell Legacy by Jesse Marcel Jr. As the visitors
of the site already know, Jesse Marcel Jr. is the son and witness to Jesse
Marcel sr. involvement in the Roswell incident. I highly recommend this book.
Jesse jr. and his Dad were both high ranking Officers in the military and their
reputations and credentials are impecable. Jesse clearly defends his Dads
reputation and sets the record straight on what his Dad said, and gives an
overview of the debris that his Dad showed him from the Roswell crash. Jesses
wife Linda also has a chapter in the book and tells us that Jesse senior before
his death confessed to her that the debris that he encountered was defineltly
from an object that was not from this planet and that the story was definetly
altered to keep the truth from the public. Jesse jr. was also caled to
Washington by an anonymous figure (Jesse agreed to not disclose the figures
name)and questioned about the debris and its whereabouts. This official has an
office in Washington and a by Jesses story, there is a faction in our government
not disclosing information to our elected officials. But you need to read the
book. I'm now convinced that an extraterestrial vehicle crashed in near Roswell
and there has been a cover up for many years. The Marcels are NOT crazy people.

There is no question that something happened in Roswell. The question is what happened there and if it was of extraterrestrial origin. Kevin Randle is one of the best authors on the subject and has done excellent and exhaustive research to back up any claims.

The best way to find new evidence is to comb through the extreme amounts of government documents out there on what went on. It helps me that I was in the Air Force for over ten years and have an idea on how military things work. It does not really change that much since after World War II. I put together a list of questions about the incident that nag at me, and have waited for a good response to answer them:

1. Why would a full colonel state we have found a disk to the press?

2. Why would the above mentioned colonel (and others for that matter) not know one of their own balloons?

3. Why does everyone state Project Mogul was Top Secret when documents have been found by Kevin Randle to suggest otherwise?

4. Why would flag (general) officers be notified of the crash, when the base commander would suffice? Why would those same flag officers fly to Roswell AAF for such crash? I can see the Deputy Commander Maintenance (DCM) being on the scene, but the others?

5. Why did they need to fly the debris to Wright-Patterson AAF so quickly? There was maintenance facilities at Roswell to take care of the debris. What was totally destroyed would of been taken care of through their regular supply system, not flown out specially. Project Mogul was secret back then, but the material used was not.

6. If it was a top secret military craft, why has it not been revealed to the public? After over sixty years, it would be obsolete by now.

The way to finding the truth is through the questions that are raised.

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

Resolved: The facts of Roswell point to an actual occurrence of the highest strangeness.

Three ships crashed that night in 47 ... only two Greys survived ... one was shot trying to escape, and one survived for some time ...allowing him to phone home, while under supervision. His people, the Greys, and two other Races sent ships to Earth in 1954, where they all met with an Earth Delegation in Southern California. The bodies were handed over to their people. The weak link in the secret meeting, was the Catholic Bishop, Francisis McIntyre!

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

Resolved: The facts of Roswell point to an ct
ual occurrence of the highest strangeness.

there is no mystery about roswell ...the supposed site of the ballon crash has never been put off limits to any one... this is the first fact...there has never been anything strange about the ballon ccrash...eany and every one has always been able to search the site if you can find it...facts! facts! facts! roswell can be any thing any one wants it to be...AMEN