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 Researchers and Use of Hypnosis

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Regan
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PostSubject: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:12 pm

The recent, unethical (and just ugly) behavior of David Jacobs in regards to Emma Woods has raised all kinds of questions about the use of hypnosis on UFO witnesses. I agree there are a lot of problems with using hypnosis -- a lot --- and especially by people not properly trained, and or who have their agendas and biases about the abduction phenomenon.
[size=18]
I'm curious what other researchers who use hypnosis, like Yvonne Smith, think about this?

What do you think about hypnosis? Is it utterly worthless, regardless of who uses it? Is it only as good as the person doing the hypnotizing? What about the witnesses. I'm thinking of myself, as well as my husband Jim. We've discussed it many times but, can't make that final step. We've read so much on UFOs, would we be unintentionally "lying" or making things up? I have no idea, just throwing out questions.

As heinous as Jacob's responses and actions to Emma Woods has been, I don't think that means that what we've learned from witnesses who've been hypnotized is now suddenly worthless. And yet... we need to be very careful, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:38 pm

Hi Regan , and welcome .
I have never considered regressive hypnosis as an option . My partner , who has witnessed the same life changing event , has .
It is my viewpoint that there is only one witness that counts , and that is you !


Cheers .

FW .
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:02 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about if this hurts the field of hypnotherapy.

The split second Jacobs realized that Emma Woods was in serious need of mental help, he should have had absolutely nothing to do with her in a professional capacity, or in regard to his research. Jacobs isn't trained for this stuff and I'm of the belief that he (and Budd Hopkins, etc.) shouldn't really be playing around with people.

But, Temple University and the US Dept. of Health and Human Services have both apparently investigated this and have come to the conclusion that Jacobs didn't do anything wrong. So what is it that I'm missing here?

I will say this, her website gives her away. She claims to have added some photos because people said that her story should have more of a "human face" attached to it. The composition of the photos that she chose and placed on there appear about as inhuman as a person can be portrayed. If that's how she sees herself, that speaks volumes.

At any rate, if you're thinking of being hypnotized (for whatever reason), you're best bet is to have it done by a pro. One who isn't planning to write a book about you. Very Happy
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Regan
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:41 am

Quote :
The split second Jacobs realized that Emma Woods was in serious need of mental help, he should have had absolutely nothing to do with her in a professional capacity, or in regard to his research. Jacobs isn't trained for this stuff and I'm of the belief that he (and Budd Hopkins, etc.) shouldn't really be playing around with people.

Jacobs attempted to plant suggestions into Emma's head that she had mulitple personality disorder, he asked her to send him her unwashed panties, he was involved in a bizarre scenario about aliens sending e-mails. . .

Your comment appears to contradict itself: Jacobs "isn't trained for this stuff" and you believe he shouldn't "be playing around with people" yet you also state that Jacobs shouldn't have had anything to do with Woods when he realized she "was in serious need of mental help" -- which tells where you're at with all this. What "professional" capacity do you mean, on Jacob's part? UFO researcher? That's the only "professional capacity" there is in this context.

Throughout this mess, Jacob's attitude is very clear, regardless of any mental issues Woods may or may not have, etc. Jacob's has been controlling, manipulative, arrogant, threatening, playing the authority power card... loud and clear. Obvious.

I suspect that this has been a huge embarrassment for the University, and they considered both Jacobs and Woods to be kooks, and weren't going to give either one of them serious attention. A quick glance to avoid scandal and law suits and hassles, a nod to the academic, and forget about it.

This goes beyond a "Is Emma Woods nuts?" perspective. It's about the nature of research, the researcher, the witness, that relationship, the views and agendas of researchers, what data we've gleaned about abductions using hypnosis, and hypnosis as a tool in UFO research.

My questions now concern hypnosis as a tool in UFO research, in general, and what do we do, if anything, with what we've learned about abductions and encounters using hypnosis.

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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:46 pm

Regan wrote:

This goes beyond a "Is Emma Woods nuts?" perspective. It's about the nature of research, the researcher, the witness, that relationship, the views and agendas of researchers, what data we've gleaned about abductions using hypnosis, and hypnosis as a tool in UFO research.

My questions now concern hypnosis as a tool in UFO research, in general, and what do we do, if anything, with what we've learned about abductions and encounters using hypnosis.


Regan,

I can give my amateur opinions on hypnosis and its usefulness. I don't talk about this much because it is tangential to the UFO subject, but I did many years of work in past lives using hypnosis both as a subject and a facilitator.

First, it is important to understand what hypnosis IS. It is not some magical mind manipulation as so many portray it. It is simply a process of mental concentration that relaxes the conscious mind so that the subconscious can come to the fore. The subconscious is the store house for our memories. But the subconscious is also somewhat plastic and lacks logic or reason. This is where so many of the problems with hypnosis as a tool begin.

For one thing, the subconscious is very suggestible. Not always, or in all cases, but it can give in to suggestion if the hypnotist is insistent enough or the subconscious feels inclined to give the facilitator what they want. This can be seen in many criminal cases where the suspect is subjected to hours and hours of interrogation until the suspect can't take it anymore and finally tells the cops what they want to hear.

So, rule number one for ANY hypnotist looking for subjective truths, is that YOU CANNOT ASK LEADING QUESTIONS. Period!

Questions or suggestions should remain neutral such as "so what happened next?" Or, "let's go back to this date where something unusual happened." Or, you can use information gained through neutral questioning to help flesh out incomplete or fuzzy information such as, "what was it that this person did to you that made you upset?".

In this way, you can work with information that originated only with the subject. What does not work is with people like Jacobs who have preconceived notions about what they will find and deliberately push their subjects in that direction. That is neither an honest search for truth or even a clumsy technique: it is delusional. And furthermore it is irresponsible and most likely detrimental to the subject as well.

For all of my experiences with hypnosis and past life work, I have only a couple of times tried to use it for looking at the UFO subject. Boy, I don't even like to go there. The first time around was pretty neutral. Some stuff came up, but unlike the past life stuff, I had a hard time "owning" those things. I found myself questioning it all. Was that real? Did that come from me? Do I believe it? Lot's of questions but no satisfactory answers. None.

The second time was positively discombobulating. I came unglued. I have very little memory of what came up because I was mostly terrified. I could not nor would not accept it. Period. This was a very profound, visceral emotional response. In all of the hypnotic journeys I took, none were as emotionally charged as this. I simply could not handle it. So I did the most sane thing i could do: I forgot about it.

I put it as far away from my mind as I could and I refused to think about it for years.

I still think hypnosis is a good tool for unlocking the unconscious mind. It is really all we have right now. It may be flawed and the results will vary from subject to subject, but how else can we learn about things that are locked just below our conscious awareness?

But one thing is a definite: only a competent hypnotist with the proper mental attitude should EVER be allowed to use this tool. John Mack showed the proper attitude and use of hypnosis. David Jacobs and the late D. Scott Rogo did not. If you want to go this route, I suggest that you try different hypnotists our for "test-drives". You can do this with past life stuff, since you are not looking for information so much as you are looking for a good comfort-zone with the facilitator.

Anyway, that is my two cents. I hope this helps!

Cheers!!

Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:58 pm

Mike, it does help very much, and thank you. I had no idea you had that background with hypnosis!

I have had some hypnosis in the past, not to do with anything about UFOs, but various relaxation things, and a past life regression. Which, was very interesting and explained a lot, but I also questioned it. Because I wondered: how much of "where I went off to" (Scotland, above the sea on a cliff, 1700s, poor, dirt poor, and much more I won't go into) was a visual and symbolic representation of my beliefs/ideas/opinions, maybe mixed in with some racial memory, rather than a literal recall of a literal event?

At least two things keep me from undergoing hypnosis regarding UFOs: 1) I admit it, I'm scared of what might come up, and 2) how much of what comes up is my own creation, and how much, if any, is "what really happened?"

That aside, how does all we've learned from witnesses who've undergone hypnosis, including clients of Jacobs, fit in with UFO data? Despite personal agendas and biases of researchers, and their unethical behavior, the information is still there and I guess the question, as it's always been before all this nastiness, is: how do we look at that information?
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:23 am

Regan wrote:
Your comment appears to contradict itself: Jacobs "isn't trained for this stuff" and you believe he shouldn't "be playing around with people" yet you also state that Jacobs shouldn't have had anything to do with Woods when he realized she "was in serious need of mental help" -- which tells where you're at with all this. What "professional" capacity do you mean, on Jacob's part? UFO researcher? That's the only "professional capacity" there is in this context.

How exactly is that contradictory? Jacobs, as a UFO researcher, can write about people and their experiences, can talk with them, etc. That doesn't mean he should be going around hypnotizing people just because he's seen pros use it as an effective tool.

What I meant by professional capacity, was that if he was genuinely concerned with her well-being, he could have continued a good relationship with her in a personal capacity, sans UFO research and/or hypnosis for his writings. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit regarding human decency.

And while it's certainly possible that Temple University thinks they're both nuts, and wants to avoid embarrassment, what about the US Dept of HHS? They looked into it as well, and didn't think there was any impropriety. I happen to think that there might have been, however. I suppose since Jacobs isn't certified in any way to do hypnotherapy, or any manner of psychology, HHS perhaps has their hands tied as to what action can be taken if they thought some funny was going on. Another reason why people should only deal with pros; Legal recourse in the event of situations such as this. Essentially, If Jacobs really thought this woman was suffering from MPD, he had no business hypnotizing her to convince her of it, even if he thought he was only trying to help her.

As far as how one should view the info concerning the abduction mystery gained from hypnosis, this type of situation should teach us that the therapy is only as good as the therapist. It's tough because on one hand you might have "UFO researchers" looking for evil greys behind every corner, and on the other hand you have professionals who might scoff at the idea of alien abduction.

Also, don't forget the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare of the 80's. You had some very unscrupulous characters hypnotizing people and coming up with all sorts of elaborate story lines. Lives were destroyed over some of that. Where David Jacobs might see aliens, of hybrids, or what have you, those people were interpreting it as Child Sacrificing Devil Worshipers and evil demons from the depths of hell.

That's why I take into account who is working on the cases. I don't think any of this would tarnish the important work of the late John Mack, for instance. He was a not only a Harvard Medical trained psychiatrist, but also a certified psychotherapist.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:42 pm

WIlhelm wrote:
That's why I take into account who is working on the cases. I don't think any of this would tarnish the important work of the late John Mack, for instance. He was a not only a Harvard Medical trained psychiatrist, but also a certified psychotherapist.

Thanks Wilhelm!

I agree that John Mack is the epitome of an honest researcher, using hypnosis as a tool. The most important factor in Mack's oeuvre is that he did not bring an agenda to his investigations. Rather, he simply let the stories unfold in their own way and left his speculations and musings until after the fact.

For instance, I think that Budd Hopkins and especially David Jacobs have been less than ideal in this sense because they brought their judgments and beliefs about the phenomenon directly into the hypnosis sessions. If an investigator is after the truth, rather than an affirmation of their beliefs, then it is always necessary to remain neutral and leave all such beliefs and agendas away from the investigation. Without an honest attempt at objectivity, then all such investigations are tainted.

I feel that Mack's untimely death was a real blow to an honest and even minded investigation of the abduction phenomenon.

WIlhelm wrote:

Also, don't forget the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare of the 80's. You had some very unscrupulous characters hypnotizing people and coming up with all sorts of elaborate story lines. Lives were destroyed over some of that. Where David Jacobs might see aliens, of hybrids, or what have you, those people were interpreting it as Child Sacrificing Devil Worshipers and evil demons from the depths of hell.

I would find this contemporary western example of "mass hysteria" amusing if its implications had not been so profound and had such detrimental effects on so many hapless folks. This is a perfect example of allowing beliefs to color a supposed "investigation". As I stated above, if you badger anybody enough, they will deliver whatever nonsense you desire.

To my mind, Jacobs, and to a lesser extent, Hopkins, are examples of this desire to affirm their beliefs rather than leave their agendas aside and let the subject's stories unfold without interference. I agree that stories they have elicited are still useful to some extent. But they become less useful to the degree that these fellows apply their spin doctrines to the process. In the case of Jacobs, he has gone so far astray that I do not think it is much of an exaggeration to say that his "investigations" are so compromised as to make them pretty much useless as evidence of anything beyond hoaxing or wishful thinking.

In his case, even the wishing is hopelessly subverted by his belief in evil trolls. I suspect that Jacobs is a dangerously fear ridden man who actively projects his subjective fears onto others. I think the guy needs a shrink.....

Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:55 pm

about the satanic ritual abuse cases: I know this is out there, but I've always wondered about that. First you had people insisting they were abused within that realm, then, we had abductions. Both scary, unwanted, and "paranormal" type experiences, both revealed under hypnosis. Something intentional seems to be afoot here on the part of "them" -- "them" being, who knows. Aliens, humans, mind control, . . . .fill in your favorite conspiracy black ops/alien entity here.

That doesn't explain much though, and it doesn't fit, for example what of Barney and Betty Hill, whose experience predated all the satanic scare stuff.

I think there's a clue there. Maybe.

Meanwhile, agreed, this is very mallable and delicate and has as much to do with the techniques, skills, biases and interpretations of the hypnotist as anything else.

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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:02 am

On Betty and Barney Hill: I always found it odd that Barney thought their abductors were wearing Nazi uniforms while Betty didn't seem to recall that detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:22 pm

A summation from stories of alien abduction finds evidence the occult event places what ever related scenario experience into the victims head. Hypnosis only works on certain people and from some of the stories documented, its a crap shoot on giving up the details as observed, if an actual event was observed at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:36 pm

WIlhelm wrote:
The split second Jacobs realized that Emma Woods was in serious need of mental help, he should have had absolutely nothing to do with her in a professional capacity, or in regard to his research.

Dr. Jacobs did not think that I was in serious need of mental help. He does not work with people who he thinks are mentally ill. He worked with me as his research subject for two years, and he did this because he knew that I did not have mental health problems. He only began to say that I was mentally ill after I questioned whether Elizabeth had written the “hybrid” instant messaging, and after I had criticized his conduct. In my opinion he has done this in an attempt to damage my personal reputation so that what I have made public about his misconduct is not listened to. I have a psychological assessment of me by my former therapist on my website which states that I do not suffer from mental illness. My current therapist likewise consider me to be psychologically normal and is supporting me in the action that I am taking in regard to Dr. Jacobs’’ misconduct.

WIlhelm wrote:
Essentially, If Jacobs really thought this woman was suffering from MPD, he had no business hypnotizing her to convince her of it, even if he thought he was only trying to help her.

Dr. Jacobs did not think that I had MPD. He put hypnotic suggestions in my mind that I had MPD as a “tactic” to prevent hostile “aliens and “hybrids” from knowing that he was researching my case. He did not tell me beforehand that he was going to do it, and I did not know that he was going to. I have an audio clip of him doing it, and background information about it on my website.

The research subject who Dr. Jacobs took on after me contacted me through my website. He told me that Dr. Jacobs used hypnosis to try to instill a message in his mind that he was “the bad guy”, and not Dr. Jacobs, so that the “aliens” would go after him, and not Dr. Jacobs. The young man was 21-years-old at the time.

Dr. Jacobs’ use of hypnosis to carry out the “bad guy” tactic on the young man, and the MPD tactic on me, was reprehensible behavior by a researcher towards his research subjects.

WIlhelm wrote:
But, Temple University and the US Dept. of Health and Human Services have both apparently investigated this and have come to the conclusion that Jacobs didn't do anything wrong. So what is it that I'm missing here?

WIlhelm wrote:
… what about the US Dept of HHS? They looked into it as well, and didn't think there was any impropriety.

Neither Temple University nor the Office for Human Research Protections (OHRP) investigated the matter.

The OHRP told me that Temple University had presented a case to them that Dr. Jacobs was not doing “research”, but was just doing “oral history”, and that therefore it was outside the OHRP’s jurisdiction and they could not investigate it. Nevertheless, the OHRP told me that they were concerned about it, and that they would ask Temple University to investigate it voluntarily.

Temple University, however, told me that as they did not class Dr. Jacobs’ research as “research”, that they could not investigate it.

Dr. Jacobs got me to sign Temple University Research Consent forms when I became his research subject, which said that I was a research subject of Temple University. However, Temple University told me that the forms were “unauthorized “ by them. They said that they have told him not to use their name, or the word “research” in his work with people in the future.

WIlhelm wrote:
At any rate, if you're thinking of being hypnotized (for whatever reason), you're best bet is to have it done by a pro. One who isn't planning to write a book about you. Very Happy

Dr. Jacobs presented himself to me as an academic researcher conducting research under Temple University. The Temple University Research Consent forms that he had me sign said that I was participating in scholarly research. This was why I agreed to be hypnotized by him. I had no idea that he was intending to write another book. Later, he told me that he was going to write a book, and that he was going to feature my case in it. I subsequently withdrew permission for him to use my case in the book.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:17 am

As to that last bit of Emma's post -- Jacobs does present himself as a professional. That is the really sad part because he always done that and people that go to him for help believe that he is a professional and that he can help them.

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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:25 am

We were considering hypnosis off and on for a long time,both before meeting and after marriage.The reasons we didn't turned out to be the same;
We didn't really trust the Hypnotists and could never find one we felt completely confident would handle regression without the 'leading' style of questions that seems to absolutely pervade the arena of regressive hypnosis so completely.
When we were considering it,we wanted to be sure of getting 'untainted playback' from our memories,and had planned on doing things seperately,with two different hypnotists and only revealing the notes and tapes to each other after the final session,the idea that they'd remain sealed until that time.
Again,never found hypnotists we felt we could rely on not to bias or taint things with 'leading' questions.
That,and it's kind of expensive--last we checked hypnotherapists of any kind aren't cheap.
This became a largely irrelevant consideration after we started having our memories spontaneously come back,although in retrospect it seems to have been in the works for some time...frequent headaches and a host of other symptoms over the span of a few years then it was like a dam suddenly bursting in our heads,M first then myself.Before that,there'd been snippets and things we saw in our dreams that never matched with the overall dreams themselves.
We did little ad-hoc tests while going through that,seperate ourselves for an hour,sketch the aliens,pieces of equipment,the ships,etc..and then compared them at the same time not one-then-the-other.Yes,there were differences as expected,but the similarities were always dead-on.
We're still looking for a couple of hypnotists for our double-blind regressive memory tests.We still want to do it,just to be as sure as we can be,and maybe see if there are any other blocked-off memories in our heads that need to be unpacked and seen.

Blackwinter
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:54 pm

Just read the ufomag emma woods story. What a scoundrel this david jacobs is. As far as that elizabeth goes, thats his assistant or partner rose hargrove one and the same. It was obvious the two perps wanted to control the story so they setup a special email account for emma to communicate with them from. How conveinent when the stuff hits the fan and the control information has to be scrubbed like those emma woods blogs by jacobs and elizabeth.

This story writes of a guy who cashes in on other peoples stories and in this case, jacobs shopped the story to his smiling publisher who liked what he was shown and, handed over a tidy sum in an advance. When the time came for the publisher to have some material in his hand to publish, jacobs became desperate and made an exit by taking down emma as a nut job.

There's people screen scrapping forums and websites all the time for publishing rights to stories. I had a big name author scoop a phrase I created in a forum we participated in. I was shocked when I read him print that.

Trust no one in this world.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:06 am

@
Trust no one and yet we have to trust some one.
Durring my time on this planet, I have discovered that one must indeed trust some one. but never ever tell them all.
Betrayal, the word is so easy to say and yet it means so much. I have been married to my best friend for many years and yet
I cannot bring myself to tell her every thing that I have seen and done. One does not tell a sweet gentle person how it feels to slip
a blade between the ribs of an enemy. how it feels to cup a hand over his mouth and to feel his last gasp for air that will never come.
How you ease his body to the ground, bieng care full not to make a sound. To pass as a ghost by his sleeping comrades.
No Gigas, you are right! trust no one.
When you take position in the ambush.Lying at the edge of the trail, waiting in the rain, for them to come. The sudden burst of sound of the shots and explosions . Then the silence when the deed is done. Rising from your position and moving among the dead and dying searching for what intel you can find. Not leaving any one alive, so no one would be able to say who did the deed.

Yes you are right
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:20 am

Sounds like post traumatic stress disorder. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:57 pm

Well it looks like david jacobs had his ass handed to him in last nights C2C interview with george knapp interview of the ufomag emma woods story. The guy just keeps digging himself in a deeper hole with every rebuttal he stutters and stammers out.

I couldn't help notice the professional clinical terms david used such as crazy and nuts with maybe an insane or two thrown in for good affect when stating his position on emma woods effort to destroy him. Ya know dude, ya never should of asked for those panties. Thats the sign of a sicko creep using someone for bizzare reasons.

I suggest you give simon and schuster back the advance they forked over for the emma woods story and call it a night. Oh, and that later in the show plug from a professional make believe friend saying how right you are in breaking off the affair, and maybe you need to use litigation to end it, well that was odd and fell on the really weird creepy side of your angle. Was that another stand up job to add to your glamor as a professional investigator slash hypnotist. Oh, I had to laugh as you squirmed when you found a victim who listened to your mussings that only he has the credentials to perform hypno-therapy since no one else has the knowledge to perform such delicate and miss understood study. Ya, I found that very creepy since I have books on other hypno- therapist who hypnotized abduction patients and wrote books on the cases just like you have been doing. So your the only one who can do this. HAHAHAHAAA, thats creepy.

From how you spoke of emma and made yourself out to be a caring professional by not saying her name but yet calling her all sorts of slanderous names you have no clinical record of support backing such conclusion. Hmmm, this shows, that only a guilty party would do such smoke and mirror defending of themselves from the truth be known, I'd say you need to lay low for a long time and stay out of the abduction scene so your tainted reputation cools back down and you can write another book on someone elses glory.

So you did it free but the money came from the books you write on the back of others. Isn't that like being a, whats the word I'm looking for?
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:59 am

Gigas,
Bravo Gigas I could not have said it any better. Holding a sharlten up to the light of day is always fun. To bad we can't tar and feather him and give him a ride out of town on a rail.
Only child it is not psd, psd is when you have night mares and regrets, I have neither. My work in the jungle was simply of a quiet nature.
Seeing the knot tied in the elephant grass so the locals wouldnt step into the trap. untieing it and retieing a few yards down. You see trapping can be a way of life. I don't do that now. To old to keep up with the kids. When you see the movie avatar you see the futur of my kind. Grunts on the ground, some times you win, some times you loose.

What we were is some thing that can never be taken away from us. Each human has such a unique story. Some are long stories and some are short.

Davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:57 pm

The history channel had another 1 hour episode of ancient aliens on last thursday and guess who ended the show in the last couple of minutes. David Jacobs. I was all giggly seeing the perp and wondered if he was gonna go on an extended witch hunt over emma woods. But alas, he perfectly restrained himself or perhaps maybe the cutting room editors did it for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:28 am

It would not do for me to be an "editor"
!: I make to many mistakes
2: When I catch some one blythering on I tend to roast and toast them (I am as guilty of that myself)
3: While I love a good story, I hate it when it is presented as truth (see any congressional hearing)
4: If I can catch them in a good one I go public with it, reputations for tall tales
5: Congress, large amounts of stupid people doing stupid things.
Hmmm! I better leave it at that

Davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Researchers and Use of Hypnosis   Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:43 am

santa rendeer
Indeed a great christmas was had by all.........
after an all day and thru the night marathon of turkey and ham cooking (not to mention my famous cranberry, orange and walnut sauce)
11 loaves of banna nut bread and 12 pumpkin rolls with creamy whipped cheese. Some where over 2 gross peanut butter kisses cookies.
As we were gently opening our christmass presents early in the morning, I fell to sleep and snored away the day. Some four hours later I woke up with my new watch cap pulled down over my eyes. KIds and Grand kids are great. lol!
Your panhandle has some odd sights. Other then the bikinis on panama beach.
Ever spend a fall night out by eglin field. One never knows what lies arround the corner on those back sand roads.

Dave(the christmas)fair
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