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 Capturing the Light

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lightsinthesky
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PostSubject: Capturing the Light   Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:00 pm

This one still blows me away, hands down the
best and most credible in the field. Gotta
check it out if you haven't. www.capturingthelightdvd.com

Was really happy to see UFO Magazine cover this incredible
story in this month's mag, great article Alfred!

Peace - LS
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Alfred Lehmberg
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:21 am

Thank you Sir or Madam! It was a pretty easy article to write... the story has such divergent support from major players on both sides of the aisle over a long period of time. Stay tuned for "part two" and thanks again!

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com
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Jeremy Vaeni
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:57 pm

Finally saw this flick this weekend and I've gotta say it is hands down the best UFO/Experiencer doc I've ever seen. I say that because:

1.) Dorothy is not only credible but exudes some honest quality before she even opens her mouth. (Dare I say "aura," metaphorically?)

2.) The family and family dynamic are credible.

3.) The footage is IMPOSSIBLE. This is where being friends with a photo/video analyst comes in handy. It turns out, it is as impossible to fake as it looks impossible to be real. Consider me floored.

4.) As a documentary, it is so low-key and more about the people than about pontificating or shoving "proof" down your throat that it's refreshing. Far more interesting than watching the usual good ol' boy network of ufologists trot out and recite the same tired lines that are typical of UFO docs. In fact, the one special effects analyst testifying here makes it clear that the piece of UFO footage he examined is not after-effects CGI--that is to say, what you're seeing is actually there... but he's careful to add that that's not proof it's alien. It could be a hoax of a different color or a mistaken identity. It is the type of qualifier that would get edited out of your average documentary.

I wish there had been more expert testimony and a deeper examination of some of the key things Dorothy says about the beings and the nature of her interactions with them. There were some missed opportunities there, but all in all this is the most convincing case of its kind, IMO. I think that explains why it's garnered so little attention over the years: Because it's real.

Pray for a sequel.
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:03 pm

Some of the lights remind me of the NZ aerial footage back from late '78 or early '79 that B. Maccabee took an interest in and was featured on CBS News presented by the late Walter Cronkite (New Years Day '79?) and look very much like some of the Stephenville footage featured on UFO Hunters - Invasion Texas (I may have the wrong episode name).

The very, very high-speed light patterns are... in need of further investigation. I don't have the DVD mentioned in the OP to watch but I will at some point. Very Happy The lady that the phenomenon is related to in this specific instance is very impressive.

A clip from: D Izatt - Unsolved Mysteries - Vancouver Lights



Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:13 pm

They do look similar. One of the differences is that the lights in the Stephensville video are a product of camera trickery (or perhaps simply having it on a setting the camera operator was unfamiliar with) that anyone can do with digital cams. The Izatt cam is completely different and it's not at all clear how one could produce those images with that unforgiving camera on one frame of film in the middle of a shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:52 pm

Hmmm. No. I don't think so Jeremy Vaeni. JMPO. I'm starting to have less and less confidence in "expert" opinion - especially those with potential vested or conflicted interests and in "the UFO promotion industry" especially "graphics/video/effects/talk experts" and "film-makers".

To your point about the Stephenville footage?

Whatever. Shrugs. In this specific instance I'd be interested in the phenomenon being reviewed and analyzed by third party optical physics scientists (you know... the real kind; not "movie-people") and the camera manufacturers technical department; those without an axe to grind or UFO "ology" history - period. JMHO. Very Happy

Given the original Stephenville camera and footage in question intact? Last folks I'd take it to or allow access would be those with potential vested interests - in any "camp".

I do have confidence in Mrs. Izatt relating her experience... and not much more.

I liked in the "Capturing The Light" DVD (at approximately the 41 minute mark) where the film's maker(?) - (whomever) is speaking about what Mrs. Izatt (Dorothy) says about the "light" and it's relationship to various medium/media. Divine? Mmmmm OK. Whatever sells into the current marketplace I guess.

"The light by any medium never lost it's potency" - I suppose that's one other opinion Jeremy Vaeni.



For reference, The Stephenville Caron footage on YouTube:



For reference, The Fogarty NZ piece featured on CBS with "the frame".



It is only a personal belief that the "high-speed" light patterns deserve closer study - 'folks can believe what they choose to "see". Very Happy

Fix'

P.S. In the Capturing the light video one visual (sort of blocky-locking) reminds me a bit of the object filmed in an Israeli kibbutz and featured in the Frakes narrated Murdoch product Best Evidence II.


Last edited by Fixer on Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:40 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : To add Light Potency clip.)
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:14 pm

I don't know which video analysts with a vested interest you're referring to (outside of the people in the doc itself) but I watched it with Jeff Ritzmann who has over ten years as a photo/video analyst and no vested interest in this (or the Stephensville case.) He explained to me how one is possible and the other isn't. I haven't asked Dr. Maccabee about Izatt's footage but I have asked about Stephensville and he concurs. To my knowledge, he doesn't have a vested interest in either.

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure if you have a handicam on a nighttime setting (not the green "night vision" setting some cams have, but the general nighttime setting most do) and you aim it at a star you will obtain the same result. I've used it in music videos to make people and lights streak like that.

As for Dorothy giving religious or spiritual meaning to it... She's entitled to her interpretation and that's a separate issue from the footage, IMO. In fact, the interpretive parts of the film are the only thing I could have done without.
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:55 pm

I agree Jeremy that the interpretive "bits" can be a distraction. Very Happy Please forgive my preference to have data examined outside of the entertainment of UFO/alt enthusiast/business. Really. Very Happy It's only "my" personal preference.

Jeff who? Former (three-letter website) person? Yikes! Red-flag. SERPO. O'Hare. Alarms and klaxons. David who? Jim who? Music video? OK.

That's the hypothetical skeptics - opener. Copy-paste-composite-render, blah, blah , ILM, DreamWorks, (drop other names here) what ever, who ever. Dazzle-banter. Very Happy Character-assassination, aspersion casting... blah, blah. On all sides. Rhinestone gloves and lipstick on a pig. Insert advert here. That's one possible interpretation... that also complicates.

It doesn't exactly un-impress me and I wish you and your Bud really good fortune Jeremy. I mean that sincerely. Go get 'em! Very Happy

Sorry, "ologists" of UFO - (cringes for incoming HE 155's and DIME) some have an "interest" or "stake" already in the subject matter (fine and good by me) that the skepti-zealots or as I sometimes refer to them "skeptologists" will "have you for lunch" in "the public eye" and burp and fart amongst their "cult-ture" and not much further will the altruistic goal of truth be served. Very Happy Sorry. JMHO. Very Happy Whether the data and analysis are competent or not becomes "lessened" after the "spin-cycle". That's the kicker in the "deal". Perceived "guilt" by mere association and interest and in some cases real honest and authentic efforts are undervalued.

Some UFOlogists don't seem to understand that their "cred-level" is pretty damn low at the "low" end and the same goes for all sides. Belief simply will not "cut the mustard" for REAL advancement to occur but it makes for enjoyable entertainment. Belief, I got... in spades. I want truth "demonstrated" without "interpretive complication". Some of "the public" might like that too eh. Again, JMPO.

Until the movement of positive intent can absolutely satisfy the larger public AND completely neutralize any potential complaint (real or fabricated) of "those Crazy-Guys" in the "bunko-squads"... then any and all attempt to "actually get something done" is no more than entertainment which "can" spread the word - both GOOD and maybe "not-so-good". They "play" and win even in a "stalemate" outcome. Again, JMPO.

Many "expert analysts" have an interest in the field and histories and allegiances by definition - "We need them". Some are no doubt "very skilled" and talented and well-meaning. Some (not I) use this fact as taint/tint. Round and round - chasing the tale. Cyclotronic. Faster and faster.

Like I said Jeremy if I could get the Stephenville original camera and intact footage... I'd have people with NO interest in the "ology" of UFO/alt/other and with pertinent professional academic accreditation that can be verified and the camera manufacturer "have a look". I know exactly the people I would choose to ask should the data and camera "intact" come into custody for validation. Very Happy

And that's all anyone could do who REALLY wanted a valid assessment of the Stephenville footage to use in pursuit of it's validation or exclusion "in the larger picture" without "complication". Very Happy

If the Stephenville footage is "trash"? I'm Ok with that. Same with Izatt or whatever comes along really. I just would like to the public-at-large have the opportunity to "not" suspect any "shenanigans" whether real or fabricated on any side when considering the issue.

Happier stuff:

I happen to choose to believe that certain individuals have "special and unique" gifts that can manifest themselves within this particular 4-space dimensionality we share. Very Happy I think I've seen it - maybe. No "proof" either. Take Mrs. Izatt, for instance, Ingo... etc.

I respect Dr. Bruce very much, however I am of the opinion that I should be exceedingly wary of those with both classified/military/research/other histories on this side of the issue as much as the other. I have my private and personal reasons for that reservation and following is a public one I'd like to share.

Less happier stuff:

That's just one of the ways I might choose to manage the public perception if it were my task to suppress and buy time for whatever intent or agency might wish that. Promote the dickens out it sometimes, squash it like a bug at others - but always leave it "neutralized". Open. Ambiguous. Ill-defined. Transitory. Blurry. Control the level and progression of engagement. Very Happy Given the task, I might also consider disrupting the "good" side from within asymmetrically - sound familiar???? Very Happy OSINT - 101. We had different names for it way back. The US is "the"' finest maestro. Public and entirely legal AND deniable.

There has been little progress in the last 60 years in regard to what many (me included) suspect regarding the general topic of "them/other/alt" history. One might reasonably consider asking "why" that is. Very Happy The best way to manage a "problem" is to have players on all sides. Very Happy.

Who owned the rights to Animal Farm? Very Happy Where'd Google's "angel-seed" funding come from? Very Happy

What I "know":

I know from own personal experience with at least two friends that both of them can affect magnetic film media with incredible but less-than-perfect repeatability. Hit or miss, but a genuine curiosity. Very Happy

One guy can't handle reel to reel audio tape without damaging the data. Even grounded and discharged.

The other guy is wild - off-scale high. Great gentle giant of a good fellow. Electro-man or something - floppies, LTOs, USB sticks, power supplies, cameras, phones, film, hard drives, SSDs, mobos, TV's, car ignition systems - fuses by the score, machines in general are... well, he "breaks" stuff without trying. Not always by physical contact either. It doesn't matter where he is... it "follows" him. Thousands of dollars of hardware/media/other malfunctions and failures across a 10 or more year period that I've known him. We think of it as "normal" now. It's an expression of "something". Very Happy

I was considering recommending he visit this site and see if "anything new" happened for him. Very Happy It bugs him. He calls it a jinx and "bad luck". I do not... I think of it as a gift/curse of sorts.

Clears throat - I'm really very optimistic Jeremy... that the greater truth of some of the mysteries and "what's behind the curtain" and especially, (wink) "what's out-back of the theater complex" might be discovered in the time I have left.

Everyday is one closer to the truth. Very Happy

Cheers and thanks Jeremy, oh, and I very much liked your and Jeff's interview with NB,

Fix'


Last edited by Fixer on Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:20 pm

"Jeff who? Former (three-letter website) person? Yikes! Red-flag. SERPO. O'Hare. Alarms and klaxons."

Is the former 3-letter website ATS? If so, why would that be a red flag? I don't think it's fair to judge by the site but by the man's work on it. He has nothing to do with the SERPO nonsense. O'Hare he worked on. Why is that a red flag? Is that not a good case?

I don't think working on one UFO case means you have a vetted interest in discounting other cases, unless you're a cultist posing as an investigator. I think that's what you're driving at but I'm not sure. I do know that there are people with pet favorites and people who try to hang onto their "discoveries" for fame and whatever fortune is available.

Still, I do agree that it would be fantastic to have eyes from outside the field investigating these things, provided they were on the level, but as this sentence implies, there are roadblocks there too.

I also think it's unfair to throw out someone's work because you don't like their personality. The work is the thing. I'd rather read a paper by a condescending jerk who knows what he's saying than the nicest guy in the world without a clue.

But here's a question: Do you own a video camera with a nighttime setting? Why not take it out tonight and shoot some lights/stars and see if it's comparable? (It might not be the same if it's a different make & model, but I'd be willing to bet the original is running at the standard 30 frames all but the higher-end cameras run by default.)
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:20 pm

If you would so kindly take the time to read my post once more please Jeremy. You might be reasonably imbued with the notion of "hypothetical" I tried to get across. Very Happy Ah, maybe I blew it. Whatever. It's in my post and it's written in English. Very Happy Whatever.

Cripes, I actually like you guys. Very Happy Uh, or I did... still do. Very Happy Very Happy No wonder the "ology" of UFO is in trouble, with itself and elsewhere as many have mentioned. I have no idea about "personalities" Jeremy, I don't actually understand what you mean by that. Not much use for them outside of data. I'm just a nobody. Not a big deal.

Hmmm, what else... ah, I used the word "vested interest" not vetted (big difference)... geez, I'm starting to "see" what my grandaughter was saying about the 'Net. It's only "my" opinion anyway Jeremy.

Oh. That other website has a "history". Figure it out for yourself or be a cheerleader - not my problem. I'm not "into" giving them ink or eyespace unless it's required. I have no need of it. Not there. No problem with Chicago? OK. If you and your buddy say so. I don't have a problem with it - others DO elsewhere on the 'Net. To me it's just more "inconclusive". I use a search engine - you "could" too, so "could" others. I merely have some reservations that would lead me to reason "that might be a problem" for some. To me? They are just another entity I have virtually no use for and I don't like staff reading PM's and using sock-puppets (and a bunch of other stuff) anyway if the tales elsewhere are true. It's all legal and shiney and biz-as-usual though. Very Happy Rhinestones and lipstick - biz. Oh, and excellent lawyers.

The "skeptologists" (my own term) DO paint with a very wide brush and some "ologists" of UFO spray-paint by the gallon too. Some skeptics and some not-skeptologists - do really great stuff. Others? Not-so-much.

I haven't thrown anyone's work "out" Jeremy. Have you? Ever? Eh? Wink.Very Happy Ever had an issue with anyone on "this side" of UFOlogy? How about the "other side"? Ever thought someone was BS-ing you? I have, but not because of being honest and trying to understand. It seems if I want "trouble" all I have to do is ask an "expert" almost anything or try and relate an honest concern or share a view that may be controversial and "interpretive complications"; stuff like this ensues. Then one wonders... what hell do I need these (what ever word fits) for? Tell me. Please. Very Happy

Why interact at all? It's simply made too difficult to do anything other than be a cheerleader by "expertise". Sad. Frustrating. Normal.

I don't "own" whatever you are asking about or suggesting I do. Besides, I might just get hassled over that too.

Actually Jeremy, I have really poor eyesight (worse by the year) and besides I don't feel the "need" to do it merely because you've suggested it. I do appreciate the offer of the suggestion though Jeremy. Very Happy It wouldn't get anyone closer to anything of even dazzle-banter discussion value let alone a truth I can make use of. Sure, digital cameras and recorders capture weird stuff - I have some examples myself. Some's "junk", some's maybe "not-so-junk". I'll send a real beaut' to Alfred one day and if he wants he can share it with who he may care to. It's only a picture.

I have used some "night" equipment in the past and it wasn't photographic. I was not particularly proficient with it in use but I do have friends who design and manufacture such items and supply them to your DoD and other various agencies and have done so for decades. Just a few miles across the city, nice guys - real scientists, real degrees, real jobs. R&D department eh. Optical physics and digital equipment is just one of their many talents. They love to figure things out. Very Happy I'd just securely send the stuff to them AND the camera manufacturer and see what their data and evaluation may or may not show. Very Happy That's "if" the opportunity could ever be realized - it's water under the bridge now.

I'm sorry if you feel offended Jeremy - I really, really hope that is not case. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy I do like what you and your Buddy do. Perhaps I haven't expressed myself very well - I haven't really the experience in this forum-writing stuff; I would like to be able to say exactly what I mean without what alittletouched has written about as "stepping on toes". I'm sorry if I'm not a graceful dance partner.

I'll dig out the kibbutz and "Capture" blocky thing images when my hands aren't quite so sore. It looks pretty darn close but I may be entirely mistaken.

Cheers Jeremy,

Fix'


Last edited by Fixer on Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling and a couple of missing words.)
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:56 pm

No no, you're not stepping on my toes, we're just conversing. I'm not offended or trying to be offensive.

In other news, when I wrote "vetted" I meant "vested." I'm an idiot. Sorry.

Here's an ATS question for ya: So they have a column in UFO Magazine now. Does that make UFO Mag suspect too by association, in your opinion? If not, what's the difference?
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:35 am

IMPORTANT PROLOGUE AND AN ASIDE: You are no idiot Jeremy. Never say that about yourself Jeremy. Very Happy It's simply not true. You seem very intelligent and bright and energetic. Very Happy You misread a single word. Very Happy I should have included hyperlinks to emphasize what I wished to communicate, I will now. Very Happy My Frodis Eye avatar says," Ain't no-thang" - OK? Very Happy

Oh good. Very Happy I'm glad you're not offended - whew. Thanks. UFO Mag? The difference? Print media? Sorry, I do not have access to that publication. I flipped through one - 1988 or '90 or something at the airport in Buenos Aires - found it all coffee stained left on a plastic chair. Lotta people read that one magazine by it's look. Had something about Roswell in it as I recall. Very Happy Part way through the page was torn out never finished the article.

Hmmm, what's the difference? Suspect? Nah. Times are tough - especially in print - things change. Can't wait for (potentially) the ER-MD and the "religious groups" to come a callin' as Nancy intimated on your web-thing-cast that someone said (I paraphrase) "Will never be spoken of again " owing to whatever. No problem. Very Happy I liked that line it gave me a "good" smile and an explanation. Very Happy

I'm reasonably happy no matter what when I find out something new though. Very Happy It's sort of exciting to learn... more since my wife passed and I'm getting over some of the sense of loss or dealing with it a bit better or... There's this physics Prof at York who uh... asked me out. Right out of the blue - never met her before just came up to me in the library and smiled... sorry Jeremy, I just got lost. Gives head a shake like the Unicorn in one version of Bladrunner. Don't get old if you can help it. Very Happy

I actually have no idea about whatever UFO Mag chooses to do with columns or columnists and I can't read them anyhow. I'm sorta surprised you'd bring it up at all. It kinda doesn't seem necessary to discuss in relation to this thread to me but whatever. It's gotta be exceedingly difficult to keep going at all - worth the effort but really GD tough - UFO Mag is important. Very Happy I'd skip the "fith-columnists" - for "the fifth estate" - another joke. Very Happy Snaps-to and salutes with precision and meaning for the continued and future well-being of NB and BB's works.

Some elsewhere may not be exactly thrilled about what you've just mentioned in response though - it's not my issue at all. I'm not privy to the terms and it's not my business! It's biz. I'm just a consumer although I like to help. I don't need or want to know about all "that" biz-stuff. Shudders. Icky. Next.

Monetization is very, very important. I'd not like to see NB or BB get "merged or bought out" unless that's what they really need or really want to do or get swallowed-up by some other entity but who knows? It could work out really, really well for somebody(s) - maybe even "all". It wouldn't come as shock but more a sense of loss to me for NB and BB maybe if they got "ate" - it happens? Dunno. I wanna see them do great for themselves and others. Very Happy Fingers-crossed.

Just an observation from the wilderness but maybe alt-media is due for some consolidation and QoS and Q&A upgrades and some including myself "outside the biz" might consider that "good" or "not-so-good". I wouldn't know. Or maybe I didn't know. Ah, the state of "unknowing". Yeah. It takes money... that I do know. Very Happy Likely more all the time. I'd have to see what happens though y'know?. Wanna be a millionaire in publishing? Start with a billion. A joke. Very Happy

The "ologists" of UFO/alt seem at "war" both internally and externally at times to some anyway. Beyond healthy competition. JMPO Very Happy It does damage "outside" not just "inside". "Cred" as in "credibility" is eroded and may or not be a renewable resource. Not to mention the field-day picnic for the "skeptologists" who'd choose to use that "disunity of purpose by whatever name" as they're own leverage. They'd use almost anything as one might use/misuse a weapon at times - rotters. Thoroughly scoundrels. JMPO again. Very Happy

It shows at times; I really, really, really, really dislike "skeptologists" - I appreciate and understand the need for all of what authentic and honest skepticism can offer in validation and verification though. Some "skeptologists" and some "ologists" of UFO/alt sure seem like pretty mean SOBs at times - I don't like that at all. Too "reality-TV" - or maybe too Cro-Magnon level thought processes for me. Us 'n' them stuff. Sucks to be them I'd guess or I'm glad I'm not them or their family or something. Very Happy Shudders.

Just thinking "out-loud" Jeremy but maybe what you've chosen to disclose "could" raise an eyebrow for some, and could seem for some to play into a potentially perceived "conspiracy-sociopathy" relationship. I read about that in a great piece I read recently elsewhere. Very Happy That could fit for some. Meh, could be good, could be bad - I'll deal with it or I won't. Caveat-emptor - I'll wear a safety helmet, sign a waiver, wear my lucky-socks, etc.

Thank you for the information though Jeremy. Very Happy I don't really have any use for it or some need-to-know imperative 'bout such stuff. I'm quite sure you could tell me many things - some I could use, others? Maybe not-so-much useful at present - but one never knows. I appreciate the effort to continue this interchange with me at this time. Cool Very Happy

ME TRYING TO BE FUNNY: I was ignorant of that fact you mentioned and now I am informed even if I don't really want to back-check your claim - I've been "put-on" before and this doesn't concern me - I wanna talk about those light-phenomenon in those clips (and other stuff). What that "stuff" might be - that's exciting. This is not... er, rather, why should I feel compelled to explain anything? Shoot, no one else does. Some even want people to pay to access "their proprietary special knowledge". LOL. I can't even get a straight answer on the Kecksburg co-ordinates. I don't actually feel the need to ask much anymore of anyone in particular. Very Happy No one gives a rat's-butt as near as I can tell to what anyone "not in the biz" thinks. LOL. Hoot!!! Very Happy

So I don't discount you could be playing a friendly-prank. Very Happy That'd be OK. Very Happy I can take a good joke even at my own expense. You can characterize whatever as you please. I do like the "What would you do if" scenario it would seem you want me to consider and respond to for your reasons not immediately or acutely obvious to me. Very Happy

MORE SERIOUS: I don't read UFO Magazine (not by choice) I'd like to though. Not one issue have I been able to purchase in a manner I am comfortable about. I've never seen it at the local bookstore I frequent. I sure as hell won't be asking for it by name out loud. Very Happy Please don't ask why OK? Very Happy Leave an old person a little privacy OK?

I'd love to have someone subscribe - actually purchase all the issues under all owners for the family library but it would seem (and I may be mistaken) that in the USA "they" may keep shipping and purchasing records (and library use records to boot) about that in your governments intrusions of privacy and may not ship in plain-brown wrappers. I like the US - just not it's government in some ways. I don't truly trust any aspect of the US gub'mint unless I can verify it's activities and claims. Sorry. I apologize if I've offended but that's the truth and I don't exactly care about, or for, US politics, or organized religions at all. Not that I wouldn't comply when compelled by US law to do so. There ARE many talented honorable folks in the US AND in your government. The US has had real journalists held without trial for years - I don't see nobody stateside bitchin' about that. Is Al-Jazeera available in the states on the tube? They are snapping up some pretty good journalists - puts most MSM "news" to shame. I guess it can't compete with dancing and contrived televised pseudo-contests in the race to LCD-numbness. Oops, rant. Sorry. Very Happy

Yeah. For some people to have a UFO Magazine delivered could cause - awkward difficulties. That I do not need. Very Happy Especially when the Post puts it in your neighbors letter box. Very Happy Wink. Or worse... please don't ask about "worse" that'd take another 5000 words.

That it may not be in the best interests of some IRL but I can understand that your government is not my deal, nor should it be... I'm considering having a proxy-friend subscribe or purchase editions of UFO Mag up-to-date and add in yearly chunks. Very Happy Maybe. But with what you've just told me and what I've written in response (thanks again for listening Very Happy) I may come to feel potentially inhibited by proxy and association - I'll wait and see what happens. Very Happy Maybe not. I'm happy with whatever. I am prepared to be surprised in any event. I hope NB and BB do more great things in the future. Very Happy I wanna watch success happen!!! I'm rootin' for them.

Oh, and about the "ology" of UFO/alt/media - It's the possibility of "I'll scratch your back, if you scratch mine" arrangements within the "ologists" of the UFO community - no ethics are really mandated, nor accreditation and it's "self-regulating" or "self policing" so to speak. Lipservice and fire and brimstone declarations of quality are lost on me. Shoot, I remember when a handshake meant something too. LOL. Very Happy

The "ology" of UFO/alt/media may even be considered by some a conspiracy of sorts - which is fine with me as I can't change a darn thing and some conspiracy to provide a truth not-yet-realized is AOK pour moi. There's "In"-ies and "out"-ies. Wooo... and exopolitics (less politics more "exo" please). Shudders. You folks "in-country" may not see it but others may. Me? Not my bag. Yeps and uh-huhs mean little. See: "Conflicts of Interest" look for Self-Policing. "Group-think" isn't good in my books. Self-determined individuals within disclosed, open and transparent associations in pursuit of the truth IS good. There's always risks.

Maybe that's why the research goes "almost nowhere" and is so damnable slow - dunno. Maybe not. 60 freakin' years - that's not good. Maybe that's why there's so much "in-fighting" within the "ologists" of UFO/alt? Dunno. Maybe that's how it's supposed to be in the designs of some? Dunno. Idle speculation - that accomplishes even less. Very Happy I wanna be looking and working on stuff with others more than care about the machinations of others. Like tracking down what the hell happened in Ottawa or chasing "bad-physics" in regard to "Die-Glocke" and later hypothetical devices. Oh and my favorite; hunting for "them" and those "us" who may be keeping us (Lenny and Lenora Public) ignorant of them. I can't prove "jack" but - they are soooo here. Very Happy It simply must be known by all at some point. I'd prefer sooner - I'm old.

I guess I'll see how much responding to a single post of yours (when I was trying to help and assist and stimulate conversation on a hypothetical) will cost me here? I kid, Jeremy. Very Happy Sorry, "I may have said the wrong thing". Very Happy Rocking boats don't go as fast. Very Happy Don't make waves. Very Happy

I reckon at least a couple of hours trying "not to step on toes" yet have a friendly and collegial even empathetic interaction is worth it (sore hands or not) and I have, I suppose - it's difficult to compose as my fingers are a bit sore. I learn something new everyday though. That's what counts most for me at this time. Very Happy

REALLY ICKY PART: My grandkid seems more correct every time I post where some "authoritative individual already in their niche and comfort zone" are concerned though. Not always. Very Happy She said it's happened to her on different forums over the years more than a few times - step "out of line" in any way and your name is mud. Then the "experts" post and , "tell one how it really is" (often bullies says she) then she says, one is ganged up on and... She told me too in her lingo, "Blow this pop-stand Grampy" days ago. Wants me to start my own private site. Noooo, no, not me. I don't want to do either... but hey, what's it truly matter? I'm tired. I make mistakes all the time. Very Happy What's one more? LOL. Money in the bank in one manner of thinking. Very Happy Mint. One less bell to answer. Grin. Great tune. Irony.

So I guess I should consider whether I really should have or have not been foolish/brave/audacious/normal/aberrant enough to interact "generically" with "people on the internet" once more and believe there would be no "negative price to pay" for participation in authenticity - "No good deed left unpunished". LOL. Very Happy I supppooooose there wasn't anything wrong or lacking with just browsing anyhow. Very Happy 'Some potential merit in that approach. Loads THX - 1138 up on the deck monitor - gotta do something about my hands - 10 minutes.

Ah... relief - my hands in warm water in a basin for a minute or two. Very Happy. Heat rub - the pepper stuff. Ahhhh. Very Happy Hmmm. Gee, I'd thought I had something else to share. Oh well - I forget stuff all the time. Very Happy

Thanks for the chat Jeremy and cheers, I hope I haven't hurt any more feelings or stepped on any more toes. Very Happy

Sincerely,

Fixer

P.S. Added later. Is or has there ever been a yearly estimation of the gross revenues within UFO/alt/ media in the USA, or globally? How big is the pie? Who has the largest slice?


Last edited by Fixer on Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:22 am; edited 9 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelling and some dropped words. Added a P.S. Fixed a hyperlink.)
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:08 am

Hi, Fixer:

ATS has had a column in the magazine for a couple of issues now. It's no secret and as far as I know it's just a column. They aren't buying the magazine.

I don't see what negative repercussions there could be for interacting on the internet so long as you remain anonymous, outside of the occasional bruised ego if such a thing bruises on ya.

I don't know where the money is in this particular "ology" nowadays. I think the Cult of Exopolitics has been smart about spreading their fraud into teaching classes to become a galactic ambassador and holding conferences in Europe. Perhaps they will become the David Hasselhoff of ufology - big in Germany.

There are certain cases that get pieced together by "researchers" hoping for a big payday, but I have a feeling those days are over because you can get so much free information on the internet, coupled with the fact that there's nothing new in these alleged cases that we haven't heard before, means less people interested in paying for it. That's a positive, I think, and in a less cynical mood I'll add that it's a sign the public is maturing and doesn't buy BS quite as easily.

I think it's safe to say that most if not all of the money people in this got their bucks elsewhere.

Lastly, on the subject of so little progress in such a long span of time... As you know there are many possible answers to why that is. Don't you find it fascinating how varied the possibilities are? There aren't many subjects where one person's answer is, "When it wants to disclose itself it will," another's is, "Because there's nothing to it, you're all delusional," and another's might be, "No progress and marginality are inherent to what it is: A trickster."

And then, of course, there's the old standby: "Just ye wait. Disclosure is coming next year."

And next year and next year and next.

Kaching.

I have my own thoughts on it but that's just another ring to the circus. Fun to watch, though, isn't it?
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:00 pm

Very Happy "As far as you' know". Uh... yeah, that sounds about right. As I said: Not my deal. Not my interest. Not my business. As a consumer - I don't really give hoot. I can keep repeating that for you if you'd like or you can keep "promoting it". I don't receive UFO Mag. You seem to be helping me beyond reason to decide NOT WANT TO PURCHASE IT AT ALL. Whatever. You don't write for UFO Mag do you? OMG. Who's puppet are you today? Very Happy You gotta serve somebody(s). Very Happy "Experts"... lotta talk about "talk" that says virtually nothing. "That" says "something" - stagnation and decadence.

Scratches idea of subscription/purchase/investment offer off list of "that might be interesting for the great-grandkids to read and have a stake in".

The 'Net has its problems - perhaps it "could" be "the problem". LOL. Very Happy Ego? Bruise. You never know... neither do I.

Some say one alt-website/media cabal... er, rather "claim" a value between $10 - 20M. Got all them "banned" folks and sock-puppets to boost the numbers. LOL. Chump-change. Click-throughs and pop-ups. Twits. But hey, they threaten and bully very legally. Mo'-Fo'. Oh, and all their "little" celebrity investors - money in a toilet. Celebrities and "personalities" - actors of bad character - stump stupid "artists" of bovine scatalogical technology. Yup, when the head-dweeb-sphincter from Oklahoma mentioned Bill "all friendly-like" I shoulda closed the browser McPermanently.

Critical thinking? Most wouldn't know it if it jumped up and bit them on the ass - especially the "experts". My grand-daughter was correct; F'-'em and build a private site - invitation only. Real names from real people for a real world. Thanks for the push Jeremy. Very Happy

Who cares about the ER-MD? Others? Baaaaa and Bah. Throw in a humbug and a pox upon dwellings. Buddy seems to have no end of detractors... the rest of exopolitics? Meh, the guy in DC is... OK. JMPO. Very Happy The Aussie is a plain charlatan-parasite. Some of us would love to see US Congressional hearings and other public stuff elsewhere. They don't even have any exo to be political about. Very Happy Politics? Oh, now there's a bastion of healthy individuals of any stripe. Uh, but I'd associate David Hasselhoff-ishness more with???? Smiles. Not exo-politics. Wink.

Yeah, Europe - 'don't have so many SLAPP laws in the EU - Canada does. So does the US - it'd be a bitch for one of these "story-tellers" or exo-pol-evangelistas to tell lies about a nation or nations and get caught "in-country". No extraction team for them. Giggle-snicker. In some places it's a criminal act to knowingly lie to the public (to the publics detriment) and a further criminal act to do so while being paid.

I wouldn't say there is exactly "nothing new" coming in old cases Jeremy. Smiles. Waves. Throws a dart at the photo on the board of Admiral Inman on top of the photo of '41. Looks at one copy of 25 years of personal hand-written military journal notes. Looks at another of diplomatic service. Then looks at the "other" journal - the "good' one. Smiles again. Thinks of HARP - not HAARP. Looks at two citations from the Governor General that does not say what either is "for". Thinks of safety deposit boxes in other locales. Thinks of family in the services. Thinks of all the debriefs. Thinks of those with whom he has served. I'll never break an oath. I'll be pushin' up daisies one day. Yeah. Very Happy So will others. There may be many others in many countries. Very Happy

But I do understand your point about "gold diggers" and the coin of the realm Jeremy... I think I agree. Total end-user payout per annum for related "stuff you can buy"? At a guess - at least several hundred millions, perhaps with and additional zero, maybe two.

In case you haven't checked - some aspects of the "public" will buy ANYTHING. Very Happy I'm kidding Jeremy. Very Happy One born every minute. I can't actually even wrap my gourd around that... It's tragic. Critical thinking? I'd settle for just some plain independent thought. LOL. Maybe the public isn't buying much of anything "true" in that there isn't much choice between vendor-entities. Count them sheep Mr. Tally-man.

Yeah, one wonders about "the early days" of those with balance sheets in the "black". Wink. Madoff. Wink - pyramid-scheme. I suppose NONE ever have received covert "assistance" from... It doesn't matter. Marionettes. The "public" is only as good as it's data - corrupted-both.

Disclosure? That's a great joke-process. Theater. A dramatic tragedy of comedic delivery. The boffins of buffoonery. Written by ghostly writers without name nor nom de plume. Behind the curtain lurks they. I want their masters. 60 years of the finest management and script writing money can buy and coerce and conceal. Bad actors. Bad continuity. Bad casting with a trawler net. The "fish-stocks" are being depleted. Not the phish-stalks though.

Circuses start with a parade - animal acts, freak-shows, trap-ease artists, barkers and MC's - they have a BIG closing act then some "leave town". Damn few clean up after themselves. LOL. Very Happy

There is only ONE possibility and the Drake equation is a reasonable primer and indicator of "genre". Very Happy When "it" happens UFOlogy will become a true science. What passes as that now (with some important exceptions) will metaphorically be in the bread-lines and soup kitchens.

Can "it" be accelerated? Yup, all it takes is "once" with the "I's" dotted and "T's" crossed. Then we will all be aware. That will be a "good" day even if it's bad news for "our" NTO's. The BS will stop WTSHTF.

Fun to watch? Fun? Painful seems closer. JMPO Very Happy It's like watching someone die from an iatrogenically introduced wasting disease. We're all inmates of that hospice.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe..." - "All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die" , Rutger Hauer (not PKD read the book DADOES please or watch Dangerous Days - Hauer wrote that).



Daisies. Smiles a knowing smile. Adieu. Very Happy

Fixer
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:06 pm

I am confused, I read through most of this and can't figure out why Fixer unregistered -- unless I am missing some other post in a different thread that pissed him off. Seems to be just a discussion. hmm...

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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:06 pm

Oh yeah, why I stopped by this thread is I keep trying to post here and something interrupts me each time. Very Happy

Anyhow, to me the Stephenville video is much different than the Izatt videos. The Stephenville video I am pretty sure is a laser. It may not be a hoax by the guy that filmed it. As I remember it was filmed a day or more after the ado over people seeing an actual object. It could well be some people with lasers that thought it would be funny or it could have been the military (or whoever) trying to discredit reports of an actual object. Being that we have several high powered lasers here at the house (don't ask) and put on laser shows when we have guests over -- I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this and it looks like a very poorly done laser show, nothing much more than waving the laser around. The reason the Izatt video is amazing is because it is only on one frame, which is really just impossible.

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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:14 pm

Yep, one more thing...

Remember after the actual huge object was seen in Phoenix, one of the following nights there was also a light show of some sort (possibly flares or a laser) and it has been used to discredit that huge object that was seen ever since.

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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:59 am

Lesley wrote:
I am confused, I read through most of this and can't figure out why Fixer unregistered -- unless I am missing some other post in a different thread that pissed him off. Seems to be just a discussion. hmm...

I dunno. Perhaps my lack of addressing his unprovoked hostility toward me went on too long and that angered him.
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:18 am

Jeremy Vaeni wrote:
Lesley wrote:
I am confused, I read through most of this and can't figure out why Fixer unregistered -- unless I am missing some other post in a different thread that pissed him off. Seems to be just a discussion. hmm...

I dunno. Perhaps my lack of addressing his unprovoked hostility toward me went on too long and that angered him.

Jeremy -- as you probably know, I would likely be among the first to go after you if you provoked someone. :-)
However, I do consider myself fair and in this case I just don't see it.

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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:37 pm

I have seen parts of the video in the Izatt video and am wary of purchasing a copy. I need more than just nocturnal lights to show me that it is extraterrestrial in origin.

I also wonder what happened to fixer. He is a good poster and has very interesting threads. Maybe he wants to start over with another name.
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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:04 pm

kidflash2008 wrote:
I have seen parts of the video in the Izatt video and am wary of purchasing a copy. I need more than just nocturnal lights to show me that it is extraterrestrial in origin.

I also wonder what happened to fixer. He is a good poster and has very interesting threads. Maybe he wants to start over with another name.

I felt the same way before I saw it, which is why I was so pleasantly surprised when I did finally see it.

I am not sure what the deal is with Fixer, doesn't make any sense to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Capturing the Light   Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:13 pm

I will put the DVD on my wish list. It won't be a top priority, but if I do get any extra spending money I will get it.
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