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 MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer

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Lesley
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PostSubject: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:33 am

Wondering how everyone feels about this?

Quote :
Billionaire real estate investor and entrepreneur Robert Bigelow of Las Vegas is now betting his bucks on MUFON to find valuable new knowledge about alien propulsion systems.

Bigelow, who has long been known to give millions of dollars to fund serious UFO research, has just concluded a deal with MUFON whereby he will supply this organization with whatever it needs to be able to go out and bring back the hard evidence, not only to document the reality of UFOs interacting with us, but most importantly to gather the kind of information that will truly advance scientific understanding of this phenomenon.

This may well prove to be a historical occasion for MUFON and for the science of Ufology in general. MUFON since its inception has been a volunteer effort on the part of civilians who devote whatever spare time and energies they can afford in order to fulfill MUFON's stated mission of scientifically investigating the UFO phenomenon for the benefit of humanity.

Now for the first time MUFON's members are going to be paid to do their work. MUFON's agreement with Bigelow is to train and qualify a special rapid response team of Field Investigators who can be deployed within 24 hours to the scene of a major UFO event, the kind designated as Category 2 or 3 in the classification system devised by legendary UFO researcher Jacques Vallee. These are the rarer cases where either physical traces are left or physiological effects are caused in the witness.

Bigelow has hired 50 top-flight scientists to assist MUFON in this endeavor who will function as consultants and do expensive lab analysis of alien materials gathered at the location of a UFO event. Bigelow, who never does anything on a small scale, a few years ago founded BAASS (Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies) with the incredibly ambitious goal of putting a commercial hotel up in orbit around the earth. He thinks that even one category 2 or 3 case if properly investigated can yield significant scientific paydirt.

Whatever high-tech equipment needed by the investigators on the scene will be drop-shipped to them overnight by BAASS. These high-profile cases will be investigated using the strictest methods of scientific protocol.

Bigelow who has been known to keep his findings on the UFO subject secret has agreed per his contract with MUFON to hold nothing back from this organization that is revealed in the BAASS lab analysis of materials supplied by MUFON. This project which just launched on March 1 is code-named SIP (for Star Impact Project) . It is a pilot experiment and will be reviewed on June 30th to see if it has proven successful enough to warrant funding for the rest of the year.

Understandably there is a lot of excitement at MUFON Headquarters and among its membership. Now with this major infusion of funds from Bigelow, it will be better able than ever to carry out its stated mission. And Bigelow possibly will get what he wants to forward his goal.

How this will all work out is hard to guess. This is something that has never been tried before. MUFON and BAASS are moving into unchartered territory here. In any case, Bigelow's investing so heavily in MUFON's ability to make SIP a successful search and find operation for greater knowledge about alien technology is some extremely good PR for MUFON whose credibility can be expected to take a significant leap forward in the eyes of the general public.

http://www.examiner.com/x-3340-Nashville-UFO-Examiner~y2009m3d6-MUFON-to-receive-major-funding-from-billionaire-backer
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:47 pm

Sounds like Mr. Bigelow is trying to do with MUFON what he tried to do with National Institute for Discovery Science. I think this effort though will be a lot more fruitful since he's working with an already well established group.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:56 am

You don't feel that by funding them gives him too much control over what they release and how they conduct investigations? I am not saying he would, but someone could do that with the intention to control the information that gets to the public. I am sure any group would say that they wouldn't allow that, but if confronted with having their funding cut off, would they? Just something that article provoked me to think about.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:21 pm

Thanks for posting the entire article, Lesley. It is chilling, I think. If you haven't already, folks should head on over to Binnall of America's radio show and listen to the Ann Druffel interview. Let's see if I've got the hang of putting in a link:

http://binnallofamerica.com/boaa2.15.9.html

Ann Part 1

She mentions the CIA taking over one of the earlier groups and sort of breaking it up from within. I'd love to know the names of the CIA folks who joined -- wonder if any of them are still around, causing mischief today?

This takeover is even more chilling, I think, because it's corporate. Maybe someone has a good take on this? Eventually, MUFON members will find us and shed some light.

Maybe. Hardly. No
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:13 pm

Lesley wrote:
You don't feel that by funding them gives him too much control over what they release and how they conduct investigations? I am not saying he would, but someone could do that with the intention to control the information that gets to the public. I am sure any group would say that they wouldn't allow that, but if confronted with having their funding cut off, would they? Just something that article provoked me to think about.

I can see where you're coming from with the information control issue, but I think more likely money will be a bigger issue. Due to the fact people who were doing it all free of charge will suddenly be getting paid, people within MUFON might start doing it for the money as opposed to just wanting to know the truth. No matter what, it has the potential to work as long as neither of those possibilities become a problem. That's assuming that that the CIA won't try and infiltrate them as Nancy mentioned they might have done with Robert Bigelow's last effort . Although I think that's unlikely mainly because if the CIA wanted to take over, disband, or infiltrate MUFON, or any similar group, they wouldn't wait for someone with lots of money to come along. They already have the power to do it without such a person, and I wouldn't be surprised if they might already have agents inside MUFON or other groups if they've found it necessary to have people within them.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:50 am

Call me a curmudgeon, (I kinda like it anyway What a Face) but the part I find most questionable is this: "These high-profile cases will be investigated using the strictest methods of scientific protocol."

Of course, the "scientific method" has been MUFON's purported modus operandi from day one. As Colin Bennett rightly points out, MUFON is the home of the "Victorian Station Masters"and UFOlogy's rational-materialist file clerks. The question is: is the MUFON method an effective way to study the phenomenon? Over 60 years of trying to hammer this square peg into our materialist round holes has resulted in nothing of mainstream consequence. Suspect

Are there nuts and bolts "saucers" flitting into and out of our reality, or does the UFO represent something more ephemeral and transitory?

I know I harp on this point time and again. I would like to state for the record that there is nothing wrong with the scientific method per se. But as Tyler pointed out on the blog - the method is one thing, the conclusions drawn from it, however, are all in our minds.

Our mindsets shape the conclusions more readily than the method. In the case of the MUFON mindset, unless the UFO is a nuts and bolts phenomenon and alien widgets suddenly start raining from the sky (before Uncle Sam and his "Moondust" agents get their experienced grimy mitts on them), the MUFON method will result in nothing of consequence - just like it has from day one.

Throwing money at the thing might be constructive in the end. Or, it could be the jealous wedge that tears MUFON apart. Bigelow says that he will hold nothing back that results from the investigations. I guess we will have to take his word for that.

My concern is, what if the UFO is not what MUFON and its archaic 20th Century methodology think it is? All the money in the world will not make that dog hunt....


Last edited by Mike Good on Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:07 am

Nancy Birnes wrote:
Thanks for posting the entire article, Lesley. It is chilling, I think. If you haven't already, folks should head on over to Binnall of America's radio show and listen to the Ann Druffel interview. Let's see if I've got the hang of putting in a link:

http://binnallofamerica.com/boaa2.15.9.html

Ann Part 1

She mentions the CIA taking over one of the earlier groups and sort of breaking it up from within. I'd love to know the names of the CIA folks who joined -- wonder if any of them are still around, causing mischief today?

This takeover is even more chilling, I think, because it's corporate. Maybe someone has a good take on this? Eventually, MUFON members will find us and shed some light.

Maybe. Hardly. No

Actually, an ex-CIA man did take over NICAP and got rid of Donald Keyhoe (the father of modern UFOlogy). Not long after that, NICAP disbanded. They had tried to push for Congressional Hearings.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:28 pm

It's always a possibility that sites are infiltreted in some shape or form. Wouldnt it make sense, in the very least for data mining, to watch sites like MUFON, and this one. Thinking as I do, it makes perfect sense to me that that is what they would do. And Im fairley sure they got my number. My military background and my training specifically relating to vehicle recognition and me posting my siting is a small threat to the governments credibility, albeit small.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:07 am

Lesley nailed it. regardless of what any organization says they are subject to there income stream and will always cater to it and protect it above all else JMHO
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:14 pm

I think most UFO groups have themselves as their own worst enemy. Many are run by cults of personality, and if they get upset with the other guy, they dismiss them and attack them. The CIA or any other government agency does not have to do anything. We are quite capable of destroying ourselves and our own credibility.

Look at all the cases that turn out to be solved or hoaxes. Many of them still show up time and time again as the real thing. What we need is to police ourselves and behave more civil toward each other (and the other's views). We also need to get some type of vetting in place to sort out the good cases from the hoaxes and solved ones that keep creeping up.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:39 pm

In an earlier post of mine on a different thread, I related my own weird experience with the Director of NUFORC (National UFO Reporting Center) during a telephone converstaion I had with him after he had received my tape. He sounded very very stern and deliberate and threatening in the conversation, he telephoned me by the way ...after reviewing my tape, and I definitely got the impression that he was warning me to "forget about this tape", he told me the objects (with no wings) were airplanes .... he paused and then dead silence.
It was strange that a Director would call someone to tell them it was airplanes, and it was even stranger that he would say it in such a stern voice and then wait to see what my response would be , as if to test how much I thought I knew about what was really on that tape. After I objected to his determination and asked him why no wings were apparent on any of the objects he again sternly said "they were airplanes, do you understand what I am telling you Mr. _ _ _ _ _ (saying my real name) .. and then silence again ....

At that point I got really creeped out by this guy and got the sense he was working for the government. I immediately played along at that instant and played my part of the dumb american citizen "oh, ok .. yeah thats what I thought it was ... I knew it was just a plane...thanks for taking a look at it" ... bye.

Earlier he had refused to send me my tape back, which I found as odd too.


So the point is ... the government would definitely set up shop inside a ufo group or take one over ... without a doubt.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:08 am

kidflash2008 wrote:
I think most UFO groups have themselves as their own worst enemy. Many are run by cults of personality, and if they get upset with the other guy, they dismiss them and attack them. The CIA or any other government agency does not have to do anything. We are quite capable of destroying ourselves and our own credibility.

Look at all the cases that turn out to be solved or hoaxes. Many of them still show up time and time again as the real thing. What we need is to police ourselves and behave more civil toward each other (and the other's views). We also need to get some type of vetting in place to sort out the good cases from the hoaxes and solved ones that keep creeping up.

Hello Lloyd,

This is an interesting statement, in a confusing sort of way. On the one hand you are decrying the UFOlogical thought police for pushing their agendas which inevitably attempt to push other interested parties out of the picture.

But you then turn around and call for "some type of vetting" process to separate the "solved" cases from the "hoaxes".Isn't this precisely what the agency agendas attempt to do, in their ham handed and presumptive way?

While certainly there are some unquestioned hoaxes (very few in that - unquestioned - category), I do not know of a single, indisputably, "solved" case.

This is a canard. No

The very reason there is so much pushing of agendas and disagreement among partisans, (who purportedly all want answers to the same questions - as long as those "answers" agree with their subjective preconceived notions) is because UFOlogy is an evidentiary vacuum. There are no "solved" cases.

Yes, we have no UFOs. All we have are disputed stories and disputed photos and films and traces of trace evidence that lead nowhere. This is what we have to "vet". The emperor has no clothes. The only things the MUFONS and NUFORCS do is argue over which items of the emperors apparel are actually missing - evidently failing to notice his utter and complete nudity.

Make no mistake, I am quite certain there are UFOs. I do not know precisely what they are. And I would offer that anybody who is truly honest about the situation would have to admit to the same. From where I stand, that doesn't leave too much to "vet".

If you can point out any definitive evidence to disabuse me of this notion, then I am all ears. And I am equally sure that the entire UFO community will be waiting with equally baited breath for those "solved" exemplars........ bounce
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:07 pm

Mike Good wrote:
kidflash2008 wrote:
I think most UFO groups have themselves as their own worst enemy. Many are run by cults of personality, and if they get upset with the other guy, they dismiss them and attack them. The CIA or any other government agency does not have to do anything. We are quite capable of destroying ourselves and our own credibility.

Look at all the cases that turn out to be solved or hoaxes. Many of them still show up time and time again as the real thing. What we need is to police ourselves and behave more civil toward each other (and the other's views). We also need to get some type of vetting in place to sort out the good cases from the hoaxes and solved ones that keep creeping up.

Hello Lloyd,

This is an interesting statement, in a confusing sort of way. On the one hand you are decrying the UFOlogical thought police for pushing their agendas which inevitably attempt to push other interested parties out of the picture.

But you then turn around and call for "some type of vetting" process to separate the "solved" cases from the "hoaxes".Isn't this precisely what the agency agendas attempt to do, in their ham handed and presumptive way?

While certainly there are some unquestioned hoaxes (very few in that - unquestioned - category), I do not know of a single, indisputably, "solved" case.

This is a canard. No

The very reason there is so much pushing of agendas and disagreement among partisans, (who purportedly all want answers to the same questions - as long as those "answers" agree with their subjective preconceived notions) is because UFOlogy is an evidentiary vacuum. There are no "solved" cases.

Yes, we have no UFOs. All we have are disputed stories and disputed photos and films and traces of trace evidence that lead nowhere. This is what we have to "vet". The emperor has no clothes. The only things the MUFONS and NUFORCS do is argue over which items of the emperors apparel are actually missing - evidently failing to notice his utter and complete nudity.

Make no mistake, I am quite certain there are UFOs. I do not know precisely what they are. And I would offer that anybody who is truly honest about the situation would have to admit to the same. From where I stand, that doesn't leave too much to "vet".

If you can point out any definitive evidence to disabuse me of this notion, then I am all ears. And I am equally sure that the entire UFO community will be waiting with equally baited breath for those "solved" exemplars........ bounce



Good post Mike , I agree with your points and I also can relate to what Lloyd is saying ... I do wish the field would try and categorize the cases better like I had posted in an earlier message. Look at MUFON , if you go to their website and try and find the best cases with the best evidence, I don't believe they have them available in any rational organized collection.

I don't even think you can find one picture or video of a ufo on mufons site ..I mighty be wrong aboiut that, but from what I remember it was pretty useless. How can that be?
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:34 pm

Mike,

I have been to many sites that claim there was a crash in Aztec NM. That case was proven to be a hoax after the book that came out was shown to have many discrepancies. That is what I am referring to as the solved ones keep coming back. The skeptics and debunkers who do the research will see that and will be correct in stating the ufology community is filled with wackos who will believe anything.

Some solved cases that are not hoaxes are the Mantell case, in which the pilot was chasing a Skyhook balloon. This is an excerpt from Kevin Randle's blog:

"The example I think of here is the Mantell case. I believe that most of the old time researchers realize that Captain Thomas Mantell, a transport pilot during the Second World War, and who had just transitioned into fighters in 1947, was killed in a tragic accident. Mantell, asked to attempt to identify an object seen over the Godman Army Air Field at Ft. Knox, Kentucky, died when his F-51 crashed.

"We now know, based on the files released by the Air Force, by the statements of those involved, research by Robert Todd, Jerry Clark and a dozen others, that Mantell climbed too high and blacked out due to oxygen starvation. His aircraft, trimmed to climb, continued upward to about 30,000 feet where the torque of the engine and the thin air conspired to pull the aircraft over, into a power dive. The aircraft was seen to begin to break up at about 20,000 feet. Mantell died in the crash.

"The object he was chasing was a skyhook balloon which was part of a classified project in 1948. Descriptions released with the declassification of the Project Blue Files seem to confirm this. The answer, tragically, is that Mantell was trying to reach a balloon that was at 80,000 feet, way above him.

"Today, we begin to argue about the case again. There are those who believe there was something more here. Mantell was chasing an alien space craft and regardless of the evidence, will not be persuaded otherwise. So, we waste more time and effort on a case, tragic though it was, that is only tangentially connected to UFOs. For those interested in the full treatment of the case see:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/

and scroll down to the segment about Mantell. All the information is there so that the reader can decide if Mantell was chasing a craft from another world or if he was chasing a balloon."

The whole blog is worth reading as it is about famed UFO researcher Don Ecker who quit UFO research:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2007/04/don-ecker-quits-ufo-research.html

Instead of vetting, what is suggested be done to try and move the field forward? There are so many whistle blowers out there who contradict each other, it is not even funny. Sgt Cliff Stone states that their are 57 varieties of aliens and they are Christian. CSM Robert Dean states Nibiru is very real and the Annunaki are true beings. Again, who is right on that one? How does the community decide?

I also agree I am against any thought police, and vetting sounds like such. However, the state of ufology is not in very good shape, and with the internet keeps falling into a downward spiral. There are some who equate the extraterrestrial presence with the devil, while others are representatives of a Galactic Federation. I hope you can see what I am trying to state here. I am not a very good writer (if I was, I would have some novels out by now).

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd


Last edited by kidflash2008 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited to add Kevin Randle)
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:41 pm

LakehurstNJwitness, it could be that the director who contacted you was getting a lot of fake YouTube type videos. He wanted to be sure you were being sincere, and was not some kid or debunker trying to hoax him.

The vast majority of UFOs on YouTube are hoaxes and fakes. I would even venture to state all of them are, but I won't do that. I get tired of going on another site (you all know where) and have a thread that states it is proof positive of flying saucers. When the thread is opened, it turns out to be a fuzzy or bad CGI video.

Here is something I found at that site that is so very true with ufology:

The Conspirators Guide

* Anyone telling the truth is obviously a liar

* Anyone Lying is obviously hiding the truth

* The more a fact is supported, the more obvious it is that "they" are trying to cover up something

* The only real facts are those unsupported and unsubstantiated

* You can't trust government, anyone who says you can, is obviously in on it too

* Never trust a photo that is clear and detailed - obviously it's too good to be true

* Blurry, unfocused, photos are the only real proof that you can trust

* No photo at all is even better proof

* Main Stream Media......Pffff

* Radical, outlandish, discredited, whacko, media is the only media to be believed

* If it's not there, and never recorded, then obviously, it's there

While the above is meant with humor, much of it is unfortunately true.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:44 pm

or...

Top 10 Techniques for Debunking Real UFO Evidence…


1. First, try to sympathise with the subject of UFOs by saying how much you would love to believe in UFOs.
2. Then, use the weapon of ridicule: “If UFOs are for real, why haven’t they landed in front of the White House yet?”
3. Argue that “high-quality” pictures and videos of UFOs actually prove nothing. It’s too easy to fabricate such footage.
4. Insist that “low quality” pictures and videos prove nothing as well. That “evidence” could be anything.
5. When confronted with a very strong UFO case, magnify one inaccurate element of the actual case evidence. Usually, revealing a single flaw invalidates the whole.
6. Claim that extraterrestrial lifeforms can only exist light-years away from earth. After all, you’re the expert!
7. If that doesn’t help, invite a skeptic to back you up and start talking about mass hallucinations, imperfect video equipment, hoaxes, etc…
8. Still no luck ? Expose a couple of fraudulent UFO cases to debunk them all. That usually works.
9. If the evidence refuses to go away, attack the researchers. Accuse them of profiting financially from their UFO research (that hurts)
10. Still unsuccessful? No worries… people have a short memory. That UFO in Chicago O’Hare ? Psst… Don’t mention that one anymore… We all forgot!
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:58 pm

Bigelow has an interesting "history". I'm watching.

I've not yet decided on "good' vs "less-good" in this matter but I'm wary. One of the first things we were taught in games theory at RMC is that to control an informational controversy it is helpful to have "your own players" seeded on ALL sides of an issue. Very Happy

Great list Lesley, thank you. Two thumbs-up. Very Happy

Fixer
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:23 pm

I can't take credit for the list. I am not sure who wrote it, someone emailed it to me a while back, but they didn't write it either. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:41 pm

It's still a great list Lesley. Very Happy Thanks.

It echos and reflects the tactics frequently used by those who would seek to "shade" and "manipulate" and "neutralize" - many nations use similar techniques to manage potentailly "difficult" issues and alter mass-perception of an event online and elsewhere. It's "spectacular" to watch a "concerted and organized" effort to manage a situation. I won't quote any examples but recent history holds evidence of such tactics and strategies.

It's just one of the many reasons I've not participated in pulblic discussion forums since before the year 2000 until very recently...

The earliest example of the list I am aware of is from August 5th 2007 - from notsonews.com an article containing the list of Top 10 Techniques for Debunking Real UFO Evidence….

In regard to Mr. Bigelow and the organization named, I do "see" the potential for conflicts of interest to perhaps arise as an issue.

Fix'


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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:15 pm

Lesley, are you trying to insinuate that I am a debunker in disguise? I put that list up to show the willingness of ufologists to not ask the questions needed in this field. I do believe there are some excellent cases that support the ET hypothesis (the Hills, Father Gill of Papua New Guinea, the Summer of Saucers events of 1952 including Flatwoods, etc).

There is another list by Stanton Friedman that I also agree with that can be used on debunkers (from a letter of his to the History Channel):

"You also demonstrated the 4 basic rules of UFO debunkery:

1. What the public doesn't know, we are not going to tell them.

2. Don't bother us with the facts, our minds are made up.

3. If we can't attack the data, we will attack the people; it is much easier.

4. Do one's research by proclamation, rather than investigation. It is much easier and most people won't know the difference."

I do think ufology needs to police itself better as we seem to do a good job of harming our own field.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:38 pm

Kidflash -- I was not saying you are a debunker. lol! I suppose I could see how you might think that, but it wasn't the case.

What it was is that the part in your list about photos struck me. It seems to me that photos and even video never really prove anything. Take the gulf breeze photos, Dr. Maccabee seemed to think they are real, but other experts will say they are fake. So often times it depends on which expert you believe. As for debunkers, there is never going to be a photo that they will agree is real and shows a UFO.
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:46 pm

There are many older photographs that cannot be explained. One reason is they are on film and film is easy to spot if someone did a double exposure or other tampering. The debunkers cannot touch those, no matter how often they want to state the pictures of the Lubbock Lights were birds or that a hubcap was thrown in the air.

I guess I can be a little sensitive, as I try to ask questions and am not prone to believe a case automatically.

BTW, I visited your blog and find it quite interesting.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd
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dayanx
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:07 pm

[quote="Lesley"]or...

Top 10 Techniques for Debunking Real UFO Evidence…


1. First, try to sympathise with the subject of UFOs by saying how much you would love to believe in UFOs.
good to grab the focus of your opponent
2. Then, use the weapon of ridicule: “If UFOs are for real, why haven’t they landed in front of the White House yet?”
we cant even [redict what other humans will do, how are we to know an alien mind's MO?
3. Argue that “high-quality” pictures and videos of UFOs actually prove nothing. It’s too easy to fabricate such footage.
this was true even in the 1920s when the most famous Nessie pic was faked
4. Insist that “low quality” pictures and videos prove nothing as well. That “evidence” could be anything.
well, technically true
5. When confronted with a very strong UFO case, magnify one inaccurate element of the actual case evidence. Usually, revealing a single flaw invalidates the whole.
the tried & true straw man technique
6. Claim that extraterrestrial lifeforms can only exist light-years away from earth. After all, you’re the expert!
if you mean intelligent lifeforms, the revamped Drake equation- being based on numbers only, only shows very crude guesses
7. If that doesn’t help, invite a skeptic to back you up and start talking about mass hallucinations, imperfect video equipment, hoaxes, etc…
barring woodstock or political rally, how exactly do you have a mass hallucination?
8. Still no luck ? Expose a couple of fraudulent UFO cases to debunk them all. That usually works.
or claims that were real enough but NOT ET in origin, then laugh
9. If the evidence refuses to go away, attack the researchers. Accuse them of profiting financially from their UFO research (that hurts)
As if Seth Shostack heads SETI for no salary. What is this, the Soviet Union? nope- the RUSSIANS have a laxer hold on the subject than the US does!
10. Still unsuccessful? No worries… people have a short memory. That UFO in Chicago O’Hare ? Psst… Don’t mention that one anymore… We all forgot!
thats why believers and skeptics MUST keep clear records and practice clear cut rules of evidence, to keep hoaxers and debunkers from killing it
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Mike Good
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:59 pm

kidflash2008 wrote:

I do think ufology needs to police itself better as we seem to do a good job of harming our own field.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd



dayanx wrote:

thats why believers and skeptics MUST keep clear records and practice clear cut rules of evidence, to keep hoaxers and debunkers from killing it

This is a plea I see often here and elsewhere. While I sympathize with it completely, I believe it stems from a misconception that the reason the mass culture doesn't believe in UFOs is due to some fatal flaw in the people who actually DO believe in them - and thus, if we just "clean up our act" then the whole world will come to us on hands and knees mumbling, "oh you guys were SO right!". Rolling Eyes

Pardon me, but that is horse hockey.

The trouble here is the prevailing cultural mindset, reinforced by a complicit media and an inherent fear in the general population that people will think them "weird" if they profess a belief in such things. Polls have shown that far more people actually "believe" than are willing to admit their belief openly. What this means is that the culture has, not only a bias against such ideas, but that the bias is emotionally reinforced by a kind of popular mass paranoia.

The problem is one of trying to bring the UFO to the prevailing mindset. The only thing which will accomplish this is presenting a genuine, unequivocal UFO to the world. Short of that, you will not budge this paradigm one inch with such mealy mouthed half-measures as "taking out the UFOlogical trash" so to speak.

This assumption is pure delusion, in my opinion.

Part of the problem is that UFO is not part or party to this cultural mindset at all. I am not convinced that we are even dealing with something that can be measured with our ancient slide-rules and billiard ball physics cognitive models.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophies. It is our mindsets that are in major need of revision, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's how I see it.


Last edited by Mike Good on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: MUFON to receive major funding from billionaire backer   Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:22 pm

All excellent points by everyone here ....

Here's one of the biggest questions that I'd like to get a few theories on ....

Supposedly the military has responded to crashed saucer sites and recovered the saucers and possibly the aliens too, not only Roswell but many others according to the stories out there.

So how do they keep all these soldiers from talking?

Now I've seen an ex-military man recently on tv talking about that case in Germany I believe it was, in the woods near the base ... where they carried a voice recorder.

But i'm talking about those young soldiers who supposedly loaded saucers onto flatbed trucks and hauled them away ... whats the theory behind that? How is it that none of them have ever spilled the beans... do they kill them or threaten to kill them? Mind control? OR just patriotic duty just good soldiers keeping their mouths shut.

any theories?
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