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 The Roswell Disk

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PostSubject: The Roswell Disk   Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:36 pm

This is one of the biggest enigmatic problems I have with Roswell. The ranchers never describe a disk, but just some debris strewn all over their ranch. However, the base commander states in the press release that a disk was found and brought back to the base. This supports the theory by Stanton Friedman and others that there were two crash sites.

The question now is, who first saw the full disk, and where did it crash? I do not think the colonel would of made this one up, as the Cold War was starting and they did not want to make people upset.

This is a question that the major researchers should start looking into. Is it possible the disk was found at San Agustin New Mexico?
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Lmonske
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PostSubject: Re: The Roswell Disk   Mon May 28, 2012 12:26 am

There wasnt any disc at all just metallic looking debris a balloon refletor train. No crater no impact no bodies those were added later. The balloon was a cover up or does anyone belive the disclosure.

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jackgbowman
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PostSubject: that is not accurate   Tue May 29, 2012 2:40 pm

500 witnesses, including two of the generals who covered it up ( Axon and Deboss) and Exley the commander who cleaned up the debris field said he saw "creatures."
I don't know where you get your info, but it's off...
check out
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/
for a more accurate view.
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Lmonske
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PostSubject: Re: The Roswell Disk   Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:52 pm

jackgbowman wrote:
500 witnesses, including two of the generals who covered it up ( Axon and Deboss) and Exley the commander who cleaned up the debris field said he saw "creatures."
I don't know where you get your info, but it's off...
check out
http://roswellproof.homestead.com/
for a more accurate view.

There was ONE witness the rancher that the balloon landed on his ranch. From then on the poor Adjutant " MARCEL" had to cover it up because he had no idea what a mogul balloon was. The rest was all fiction and debris and artifacts from roswell are in natrinal archives along with 120 boxes of info covering Roswell. See "{ROSWELL DISCLOSED " see on youtube they show it.
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PostSubject: what?   Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:39 pm

That is called disinformation BS.....they pulled stuff out of a box that was brand new and tried to play it off like an exotic radar reflector.
The Scifi Channel did a special with Bryant Gumble, the Governor of New Mexico, archeol;ogists: they found odd material , an impact site, sightings that occurred at the base days before...etc...
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PostSubject: Re: The Roswell Disk   Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:41 pm

jackgbowman wrote:
That is called disinformation BS.....they pulled stuff out of a box that was brand new and tried to play it off like an exotic radar reflector.
The Scifi Channel did a special with Bryant Gumble, the Governor of New Mexico, archeol;ogists: they found odd material , an impact site, sightings that occurred at the base days before...etc...

This is exactly what disclosure means: Coming clean and released all pertinate information regaurding the debris. Only 120 boxes of materials. Contact the National Achives and complain that everything they disclosed is false. They they would slam the door in your face. What impact site there isnt one and the ONE AN ONLY WITNESS the rancher wanted the mylar wrap off his acre of land. Thats why he went to the airforce. Before you spouted off did you notice the strange symbols on the tape. Made in Taiwan toy store. Roswell was a cover for MOGUL balloons and everyone at roswell base didnt have any idea what a mogul balloon was. Neither did his boss whitesands was point of Origin of the balloon unless directly involved wasnt told anything. By saying this was a saucer got everyone up in arms. The UFO cover works to this day, another mis-information. Just like Bob Lazzaar draw attention to somewhere else, dont it work nicely AREA51 has more cameras on its perimeter than London England. The original material was stored at Wright Paterson AFB not Area51.
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PostSubject: yeah reality is a little hard to face   Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:59 pm

they're here, they've been here, get used to it.
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PostSubject: From Dave Rudiak's Page on the Mogal BS   Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:07 pm

Project Mogul Information
New! 2012

Gen. Ramey's solo balloon too little and in too good shape to be Mogul balloon



Experiments by engineer Robert Galganski and former Project Mogul engineer Charles Moore show rapid deterioration of neoprene weather balloon material when exposed to sunlight. Galganski showed the neoprene darkening and stiffening in only 5 hours. Moore's many experiments showed the new milky white balloons deteriorating to brittle, black, tattered, ash-like pieces within 2 to 3 weeks. Yet according to the Mogul proponents, the balloon Ramey displayed was collected a full month after the alleged Mogul flight. It is darkened but still seemingly mostly intact, has a mottled appearance with many light patches instead of completely black, and has many rounded folds and pleats giving it an appearance of still having rubberlike pliability instead of being brittle. Thus the photos taken illustrate a slightly used neoprene balloon, not one sitting in the hot New Mexico sun for a month. Also there is very little balloon material there. My measurements indicate it would fit in a shoebox. It is probably the solo balloon Ramey said it was. Yet the alleged Mogul would have consisted of at least two dozen such balloons. Ramey's single balloon of recent origin alone practically disproves that a Mogul from the previous month was recovered. Ramey's single balloon was instead substituted for whatever was actually found, as his chief of staff, Gen. Thomas Dubose and Roswell intelligence officer Jesse Marcel said was the case.





Gen. Ramey's "hexagon" description proves cover-up



Gen. Roger Ramey and one of his intelligence officers told the press and FBI that the crash object in Ramey's office was "hexagonal" in shape. Only assembled, intact radar targets might resemble hexagons, and only when viewed from restricted angles. It was impossible for Ramey to deduce such a shape from the flattened, torn-up radar target in his office. Thus the "hexagonal" description must have been scripted for Ramey beforehand by somebody with highly specialized knowledge about radar targets, likely some branch of military counterintelligence deliberately plotting to use the radar targets to debunk Roswell and the flying saucers. In addition, Ramey was also quoted saying that when he finally went to take a look at the "box-kite"/radar target supposedly in his office at the time, it was "about 25 feet in diameter," a ridiculous description of what was actually later photographed (the radar targets were only 4 feet across). This and other evidence indicates the flight from Roswell hadn't even arrived yet; Ramey appears to have been improvising and stalling until it did.



How To Construct A Radar Target



A primer on how the Mogul-style radar targets were put together. Goes well with previous essay on what the radar targets really looked like. This will eventually be part of a larger section on an analysis of the Fort Worth photos, and how they actually show the remains of a singular radar target and weather balloon, not a multi-balloon, multi-target Mogul. The broken up radar target in the photos is what Gen. Ramey tried to sell as a "flying disk", as did the military in a followup debunking campaign. Debunkers to this very day are still trying to claim that a radar target was somehow confused by Roswell personnel as a "flying disk." But Gen. Ramey wasn't confused at all in his teletype message, referring to the crash object as a "DISC", while the story they would put out for the public would be of "WEATHER BALLOONS" and radar targets. Furthermore Ramey's telegram said they were shipping something "IN THE 'DISC'". As you shall see from this primer, the radar targets were sheets of foil/paper (same stuff used to wrap candy bars and chewing gum) stretched over a balsa wood kite frame and had no "insides" with anything to ship.



New! 2008 Where Did Moguls Crash?



Skeptics claim that because Project Mogul was also in New Mexico, that increases the probability that it accounts for the debris field at the Foster Ranch. But actual Mogul records show that prevailing winds almost always took the balloons well away from the debris field area. Graphical plots of over 50 recorded flights and their crash sites demonstrate that only one flight possibly crashed within 40 miles of the ranch (Flight #38, Nov. 4, 1947) and maybe 2 more (Flight #10, July 5 & Flight #17, Sept. 10 ,1947) flew in the general direction and came within ~20 miles (but flew on to crash in other states). This demonstrates that it was actually quite improbable that any Mogul would have ended up at the Foster Ranch crash site. See also the "The Phony Balloon Trajectory" below, a fraudulent attempt to try to place a probably nonexistent flight at the ranch to "explain" the Roswell crash.



Project Mogul and UFOs



The people who launched the Project Mogul balloons had many fascinating, high-quality UFO sightings of their own, including, ironically, Charles Moore, who is trying so hard to debunk Roswell in the present-day. But Moore wasn't alone. E.g., a document of an August 1947 sighting is enclosed, where the Mogul person described seeing a high-speed object while watching a balloon/radar target launch through binoculars. He said he had other "unexplainable" sightings as well while optically tracking their balloons. Also mentioned is a Mogul radar case of hovering objects at an altitude of 200 miles! Many other sightings by balloon personnel are detailed.



The Phony Balloon Trajectory



In 1997, former Project Mogul engineer Charles Moore claimed that winds for Mogul Flight #4 would have been "exactly" right and that he had "calculated" the trajectory of Flight #4, taking it "exactly" to the Foster Ranch crash site. Sounds impressive, until you find out what he really did to get his alleged lost Mogul balloon up to the ranch, including hoaxing his own model by secretly changing numbers and calculating improperly. Any use of correct math and reasonable assumptions (instead of Moore's extreme ones) has the balloons missing the ranch by a very wide margin. Moore's trajectory is actually highly improbable. Includes a lengthy discussion and many graphs, tables, and illustrations. An alternate theory of the ultimate fate of the hypothetical "Flight #4" (which a diary says was actually "canceled" on account of cloudy weather) is presented and how it might tie in to the Roswell case, but not in the way one might think. If there had been a balloon flight of some kind, it probably came down well northeast of the Foster Ranch and north of Roswell, and may have been used by the military to coach rancher Mack Brazel in what to say during a press conference they soon marched him to in Roswell.



New! FAQ on the Trajectory Hoax



Explains the basics of Moore's hoax in a mostly nonmathematical question and answer format. I originally wrote this for UFO Updates in Jan. 2004.





New! Rebuttal to Skeptical Inquirer Hoax "Defense"



In their March/April 2003 issue, the debunking magazine Skeptical Inquirer printed an inept and highly dishonest defense of Moore's Mogul trajectory hoax, amounting to little more than propaganda. Unable to refute any of my math arguments, they simply ignored them, calling them "quibbles" and "shrill accusations," and then personally attacked me as "incompetent." Some "science" magazine. Click on link to see my rebuttal article sent to the editor plus my own editorial comments on how the Skeptical Inquirer published the article in flagrant violation of their own stated editorial policy. The editor, a close acquaintance of the author, never responded to my submitted article and obviously has no intention of ever publishing it. This is another violation of standard policy of real science journals that publish rebuttals by those whose work has been criticized.

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PostSubject: Re: The Roswell Disk   Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:52 pm

Lmonske wrote:
There wasnt any disc at all just metallic looking debris a balloon refletor train. No crater no impact no bodies those were added later. The balloon was a cover up or does anyone belive the disclosure.


Walter Haut, this man delivered the message from his boss it tells how he made up the ufo story and made Walter report to the press in person that they captured a flying saucer. This guy is still alive! Stanton friedman pay attention.
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PostSubject: Ok lets talk about Him, in fact, let's let him talk...   Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:30 pm

2002 SEALED AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER G. HAUT





DATE: December 26, 2002

WITNESS: Chris Xxxxxx

NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan



(1) My name is Walter G. Haut



(2) I was born on June 2, 1922



(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203



(4) I am retired.



(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.



(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.



(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.



(Cool On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.



(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.



(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.



(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."



(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.



(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.



(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.



(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).



(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.



(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.



(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.



(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.



(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.





Signed: Walter G. Haut

December 26, 2002



Signature witnessed by:

Chris Xxxxxxx

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PostSubject: so.....your comment now, mr. Debunker?   Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:31 pm

What are you so afraid of?
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PostSubject: Walter Haut   Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:14 pm

This man delivered the message in person to the press on orders from his boss that the airforce recovered a flying saucer. The joke is on you people that belive all the ufo hype, all created by this Airforce Major.

See youtube roswell declassified this is one person that stanton friedman refused to talk to 30 years after the fact.

There is no aliens at Area 51.

Tinfoil is availible to make yourself a hat if you belive that UFOs were at roswell.

Walter Haut is still alive.
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PostSubject: really? From Wkipedia   Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:00 pm

Walter Haut
Last updated 13 days agoFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search 1st Lt. Walter Haut ( June 2, 1922―December 15,2005) is the public information officer (PIO) at the 509th Bomb Group based in Roswell, New Mexico during 1947. Early on July 8, 1947 he was ordered by the base commander, Colonel William Blanchard, to draft a press release to the public, announcing that the United States Army Air Force had recovered a crashed "flying disc" from a nearby ranch. The press release garnered widespread national and even international media attention. The U.S. Army Air Force retracted the claim later the same day, saying instead that a weather balloon had been recovered. Haut also received some criticism and ridicule in the nation's press for putting out the original press release. The series of events eventually became known as the Roswell UFO Incident.

When interviewed about the incident decades later, he claimed only a minor role, but he expressed his belief that there was "no chance" senior officers who handled the recovered material, including base commander Blanchard, mistook a weather balloon for a flying saucer.

He later claimed greater involvement, including seeing alien corpses and a craft at a base hangar and handling the strange crash debris.

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PostSubject: in the early 1970s   Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:07 pm

I was in a program for kids at Wright Patterson AFB, in the airforce museum, in a side corridor was a dusty pine and glass display case, the object furthest to the right was grey plastic and transistors and it was marked "debris from Roswell of a supposed UFO." This is when the were still calling it a weather balloon.
In 1973 a man came to WHIO radio and said he was a General, he was on his way home from his last day at work, he retired, he announced to the world, Roswell was real, there were Bodies and debris At Wright Patterson AFB. No it was not Jess Marcel who didn't start talking about it untill 77-78.
You are sadly Mistaken, this is an USAF cover-up of the largest even in Human history.
Contact from beings from another world.
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PostSubject: Re: The Roswell Disk   

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The Roswell Disk
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