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 Texas' Roswell, Aurora

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Quendan
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PostSubject: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:55 pm

I assume everyone reading this is aware of Aurora, TX, 1897 Unidentified Flying/Falling Object that crashed into a windmill and exploded. I'd like to know if anyone has an answer to my question; Why does it seem that all the documented investigations into this event gloss over the materials found on site during their investigation or a previous investigation?

I watched the History Channel's "UFO Files", investigation into this event and the first thing in comparison to others is the image of Brawly's son being presented by somebody completely different than the "UFO Hunters" interviewee.

The next thing I recognize as different is the town cemetery in Files is where they'd apparently gone, and run into trouble, while Hunters went to what appeared to be a family plot on the property.

Third the well shack is significantly different in both though made of similar materials.

Most importantly, Files came up with some fragmented metal pieces and had them tested, Hunters was, and reasonably so, unable to find any kind of wreckage after more than 100 years elapsed. Amongst the materials located in Files is a chunk of what apparently is Aluminum fused with Iron, to my understanding that is not done, that was molten metal in the air and air cooled after landing on the ground.

Think about it, Aluminum in our time, 2009, is so common place and it is cheap. Growing up in the 1980's the aluminum can hadn't controlled the soft drink world for more than a few decades, though it had been more commonly used in airplane manufacturing during World War II. This common metal was originally identified as Aluminum by Humphrey Davy in 1808 with Alum as the metal base and was produced for the first time in 1825 by Hans Christian Orstead in a crude/impure form. At one point Aluminum was considered more valuable than Gold and even though it is such a common metal was used by Napoleon III (20 April 1801 - 9 January 1873) to honor the most honored guest at his table. Aluminum had been used to cap the Washington Monument in 1884 when 30 grams cost a full days wage, 11 years after Napoleon's death and 13 years before the the incident in Aurora, TX. While Aluminum is very common today it began to be used in building construction in 1895 in Sidney, Australia and in regular smelting production by 1896, it would have been very expensive at that time. Aluminum was not common at the time of the crash in 1897 and should not have appeared as a common material in places like Aurora, TX, that had no major ties to the outside world.

In the 1890's the town of Aurora, TX, was going through various hard times and it looked as if everything was going to change when 2 railroads started construction of railways into Aurora, TX. After some time the railroads halted construction and the railways became known as the "Railroad That Never Was" leaving no major incoming materials like Aluminum to build the Judges Windmill.

The "UFO Files" investigation is the older of the two investigations and the "UFO Hunters" investigation gets permission to climb into the well.

Again I ask, why does it seem that all the documented investigations into this event gloss over the materials found on site during their investigation or a previous investigation?
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:40 pm

The UFO Hunters were granted access that no other research team had been granted before. UFO Hunters also found some bits of metal believed to be from the craft. I am one who believes the craft was an earth bound dirigible that was built by a wealthy individual and tested to see if it could be used for military purposes.

What UFO Hunters did was lay to rest some of the confusion of the event. They did prove there was a windmill on the ranch and that the well could of been the one used for storing the debris. They also had the father of the ranch's owner confirm that debris was removed from said well.

There is still no permission granted to exhume the unmarked grave. That could tell us a lot if they ever were able to exhume it as it would show once and for all if there is an extraterrestrial in it.

The one good thing about the UFO Hunters' episode was that debunkers were shown an object actually did crash in Aurora Texas. What it was is still open for debate, but the incident actually happened.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:46 am

Kid
I am still looking for the reference to witnesses claiming to have seen Propellers
I can't seem to find that.
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PostSubject: Propellers?   Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:26 pm

The crash in Aurora was not document to todays standards, that is true, though it was still better documented and is more easily accessible to the public than most other reports of the unexplained nature. Granted the news paper columnist that wrote the article, which is unfortunately the major evidence, was known to be a joker and one can only hope that he wouldn't pull that kind of joke in the news article. Names of people listed in the documentation of the crash check out to be actual people, details of a grave marker placed at the burial location that later turned up missing in the 1970's when another team wanted to investigate it. The 1970's team was allowed to see the location, scan it with a metal detector and then where kept out for several days by local the PD until when they did get back in the grave marker had been removed.

To the best of my knowledge, the documented eye witness accounts of the crash, not the aftermath of the crash, did not mention propellers of any way shape or means. We're talking about Aurora, TX, in 1897, that is 6 years before the Wright brothers first flight at Kitty Hawk (December 17, 1903), 45 years before the Battle of Los Angeles (February 25, 1942) and 50 years before Roswell (July 8, 1947). At best, for 1897, your looking at hot air balloons, which would not fit the description.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:44 pm

I am sorry if I eluded that the Aurora crash had people who saw propellers. There had been many other sightings of dirigible like objects that did have propellers seen by witnesses. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

I am still not going to call Aurora Texas an extraterrestrial craft as there still could of been a dirigible or zeppelin type craft built by a wealthy robber baron back then.

There were many people working on flying aircraft other than the Wright Brothers. The technology they were using was old even for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:14 pm

I would also like to add that until the grave is dug up and tested for DNA, there will always be questions about what happened.

At least there is now proof that something did crash.
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PostSubject: Dirigible or not   Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:15 pm

True that a derigible would likely have some form of propeller(s) on it to gain forward/reverse momentum and be able to turn using both left and right engines appropriately, even using a rudder system. Looking at the evidence we have today to look at a dirigible would probably be a sufficient answer to the Aurora crash because some lighter than air gases are highly flammable and would leave a smoke trail, Hindenburg, and anything loosing its lighter than air atmosphere does fall at a greater speed. All of that flammable material combined with flammable gases could very easily be a cause for the pilot to not appear human at the crash site too.

I do not deny that there are not other people/groups that were working on flying craft in 1897, after all the Wright brothers began developing their concept in 1896, the real clue becomes any records of the speed of the craft in the crash report. Unfortunately while Aurora is well documented for the time there is no real mention of the eye witnesses telling the velocity in which this falling object made of very expensive materials, at that time, was seen at. In 1897 Aluminum was very expensive and not widely used for many things in this country, though lite weight its early use as construction material for buildings in Australia or flat ware in France or to honor somebody in some way that Gold couldn't at that time doesn't take it off the list of usable materials, though you'd have to be a robber baron to afford it.

Try this experiment if you wish: Go to your kitchen, count the number of soda/beer cans you have, enjoy one until it is empty and then weigh the can. Multiply/divide the weight of the can until you hit 30 grams. Now that you have the number of cans it takes to make up 30 grams of aluminum figure out how many soda cans it would take to build the dirigible and divide the weight by 30 grams. The following number is what you would multiply by the average 1890's Americans wages per day to find out what it would cost without inflation/deflation the cost of building the dirigible in the 1890's.

Aluminum is much cheaper today by comparison and even widely used, Aircraft aluminum is 7075 aluminum alloy according to todays standard. Today's standard didn't exist in the 1890's, your can you just emptied is probably higher grade aluminum than what you could buy using the above experiment in the 1890's.

Don't get me wrong I am not discounting robber barons or oil tycoons or the bush family from creating something that is misunderstood.

I do find it curious that the grave marker was placed (April 1897), then removed and while denying it ever happened Aurora then put down a plaque commemorating the unmarked grave of the pilot of an unidentified flying object.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:49 pm

The pure aluminum is what is the best aspect about the case. Still, the very rich could afford such materials and were not above pissing away such money. One just needs to visit some of the garish mansions owned by those families to see that.

I do not think extraterrestrial visitation can be completely ruled out either. I think there has to be a lot more evidence to prove that aspect of the case. The basic part of the case was showing that something did crash. From that perspective, researchers can now move on to what actually did crash. This is an excellent example of the proper way to do UFO research. The first thing is to prove something did happen, which is what has been done conclusively.
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PostSubject: Now we are talking   Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:27 am

That is exactly my point, the investigation is in all technical points flawed until you can find materials and evidence to prove one way or another. A human body burned beyond all recognition would be unidentifiable to untrained eyes and uncommon air crafts made of any uncommon materials is still unexplained. Unexplained does not mean UFO or Extraterrestrial at all, just unexplained, and the only people in the day who could afford such materials for such purposes would have to have been wealthy.

I guess the question then becomes, how many wealthy persons in Texas went missing in 1897?
Particularly wealthy persons with the fortunes to blow on 1-2 tons of silver? 2000 lbs per ton, 16 ounces per lbs, 28 grams per ounce.

Looking it up the average weight of a soda/beer can is 13.95 grams or .49207 ounces.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:42 pm

Just because a wealthy person built such a craft, does not mean they flew it. Also, silver was relatively cheap as they had several huge mines out west. We are talking about some people who had more money than the government back then. One million dollars to spend on a project like this was nothing to them. (My guess would be less than $100,000 especially if they could make money by selling it to the world's military forces.)

The next best thing to do is exhume the grave and do some DNA and other tests to determine who or what is buried there.

Until that is done, we cannot rule out millionaire (or billionaire) financiers creating some type of dirigible to sell to world.
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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:40 am

kidflash2008 wrote:
Just because a wealthy person built such a craft, does not mean they flew it. Also, silver was relatively cheap as they had several huge mines out west. We are talking about some people who had more money than the government back then. One million dollars to spend on a project like this was nothing to them. (My guess would be less than $100,000 especially if they could make money by selling it to the world's military forces.)

The next best thing to do is exhume the grave and do some DNA and other tests to determine who or what is buried there.

Until that is done, we cannot rule out millionaire (or billionaire) financiers creating some type of dirigible to sell to world.

I have a feeling that grave was dug up many years ago. No, not necessarily by the government, but there was a report (I think I heard about it from Jim Marrs) that many years ago the grave was dug up by someone in the middle of the night and was left empty. Could have just been a curiosity seeker and once he had the remains he didn't know what to do with them since grave robbing is a crime.

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PostSubject: Re: Texas' Roswell, Aurora   Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:10 pm

Lesley wrote:
I have a feeling that grave was dug up many years ago. No, not necessarily by the government, but there was a report (I think I heard about it from Jim Marrs) that many years ago the grave was dug up by someone in the middle of the night and was left empty. Could have just been a curiosity seeker and once he had the remains he didn't know what to do with them since grave robbing is a crime.

I had also heard that the grave had been dug up. They still may find traces of DNA or other evidence. If the body is missing, then a whole new ballgame begins.
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PostSubject: "All for not my friends." -Spaceballs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:03 pm

"No survivors? Where do all the stories come from, I wonder." -Jack Sparrow/POTC: Curse of the Black Pearl

Okay, I admit that I am a bit of a geek...

One report explained that the investigation in the 1970's was hampered in many ways including the supposed removal/exhuming of the body and grave marker. This removal of traces took place over the course of a few weeks after the investigators started asking to dig up the body for the investigations purposes of proving the possible truth. According to the report investigators were kept out by Sheriff's that were requested by the city or county of Aurora.

The truth is we will likely never know what the truth is and it is fun to debate though in the end we are left quoting Spaceballs.

"You idiots! You captured their stunt doubles!" -Spaceballs
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