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 There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!

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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:20 pm

The number one rebuttal we get when speaking to a non-believer regarding the Bible is that they cant believe in it because it was written by man. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible that refer to the Word of God being infallible and inspired by God, but to the non-believers that is not proof.



All Scripture is God-breathed".

One of the biggest arguments from the non-believer is that science cant prove the Bible. Not only is this not accurate, but the reality is science cant prove anything that is not able to be recreated. I mean, can science prove that George Washington was the first president or that Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist? The answer is no, science can only prove what can be recreated in a controlled environment. When we refer to history and historical events, we must look at written and oral evidence. Its fair to say that most of us know who Napoleon is or what Christopher Columbus is known for, but this is not because science proved it; rather, because historical evidence has shown this to be factual.



The Bible is the most widely researched, studied and documented piece of literature in all of antiquity. There is no other book that has attempted to be discredited more than the Bible, and when you think about it, in the over 2000 years since the Bible has been in circulation, no one has been able to disprove it. In fact, more than 80% of the Bibles people, places and stories have been historically and archeologically proven.





Nelson Glueck, a respected Jewish archaeologist, claims, It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference. Thousands of religious leaders, scientists and historians have made attempts at discrediting the Bible to no avail, and what used to be arguments regarding the inaccuracies of the Bible, modern science ironically enough has proven otherwise.

The completed Bible and all of its 66 books took more than 1500 years to complete. It was written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents in 3 different languages. However, the continuity of the message has been unparalleled and unwavering: Gods redemption of mankind. This in itself speaks of a divine Creator, a higher power that inspired these individuals, who more often than not did not know of each other or the message they were spreading. There is no other piece of literature in all of history that has this type of continuity of message or hand in creation. Ancient manuscripts of both the Old and New Testaments continue to be unearthed, and when we compare the number of ancient manuscripts from the Bible to any other piece of literature in history, the results are overwhelming.

Although it was first written on perishable materials, and had to be copied and recopied for hundreds of years before the invention of the printing press, the Scriptures have never

diminished in style or accuracy, nor have they ever faced extinction. The evidence of its reliability is based on the number of ancient manuscripts which have been located, and the comparisons from the original to the current texts. It is the comparison of the original writings to the ones which have continued to be passed down through the years that proves it to be an accurate document. Below is a breakdown of some popular historical events and the number of manuscripts we have on them:

. Caesars Gallic Wars- 10

. Tactius Annals- 20

. Homers Illiad- 643

. Williams Shakespeares work- 420

Compare those numbers to that of the total number of New Testament manuscripts collected from archeology and antiquity 24,970 (and counting). One may ask, Why does the Bible have so many manuscripts? and the reason can easily be explained in the book of Isaiah 40:8, The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.

Another major aspect of the Bibles authenticity is the element of predictive prophesies. The Bible is the only religious book that contains prophecy that has proven to become true. Approximately 70% of biblical prophecy has been fulfilled to date. Give history enough time, and it will catch up to the Bible. Heres a list of some specifically fulfilled prophecies:

. Obadiah 1:4- Destruction of Edom

. Isaiah 11:11- Israel re-gathered to the promised land

. 1 Kings 13:2- Man named Josiah would rule from Judah and destroy pagan altars (300 years before he was born)

. Isaiah 44:28- Man named Cyrus would overcome Babylon (150 years before he was born)

Then we have Messianic prophesies (which are more than 300):

. Timing of His coming- Daniel 9:25

. Birthplace- Micah 5:2

. Virgin Birth- Isaiah 7:14

. Betrayal- Psalm 41:9

. Crucifixion- Psalm 22:16 (centuries before crucifixion was ever practiced)

The statistical probability of one man fulfilling only 8 of these prophecies are 10^117 power (a 10 followed by 17 zeros). To give you an example, that is like filling the entire state of Texas with silver dollars 2 feet deep and marking one of them with an X. Then you would blindfold a man, and tell him to pick up one silver dollar, and have him pick (on his first try) the marked coin. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies; conversely, the Muslims Koran, Hindus Vedas, Buddhists Tripitaka, and all other religious books lack any prophetic element. Only God can do that!

Lastly, although the Bible never claims to be a scientific textbook, it makes scientific statements that predate official discoveries by several centuries:

. Earth is a sphere- Isaiah 40:22 (not proven until 1600 years later)

. Water cycle keeps land watered- Job 36:27-28 (2500 year gap)

. Earth is suspended in space- Job 26:7- (3600 year gap)

. Ocean currents flow through the sea- Psalms 8:8 (2800 year gap)

. Earths crust rests upon a foundation- Job 38:4 (4000 year gap)

When you look at all the evidence, both historically and scientifically, it is impossible to deny that the Bible was created with divine inspiration. It was the Holy Spirit which led these men to create the Bible in order to convey the message of redemption to man, and I trust that this evidence will open your eyes to see that. Truth can stand examination. Psalm 147:5 says, Great is out Lord! His power is absolute! His understanding is beyond comprehension!
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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:41 pm

What is Plagiarism?

Here's a great LINK from Plagiarism dot Org
LINK:
http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.html


Apparently (and once again) LakehurstNJwitness has no issue 'cutting ans pasting' the words of others...and without the proper credit due.

Here's the website it came from 'word-for-word'
LINK:
http://www.weusedtobeyou.com/2009/05/22/so-you-think-the-bible-is-real-prove-it-to-me/


From my perspective, these are the actions of a 'Troll', too lazy to write her own words, and too ignorant to give credit to the works of others, until she gets caught.

Cheers
Jocariah

.


Last edited by Jocariah on Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Pearl
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:45 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Like good television, perhaps good forum needs a dash of conflict, as well.

Cheers
Jocariah

.

Maybe not 'conflict' per se, but ah honest, healthy debate never hurt anyone Smile I think you've got a lot of good points to put out there, and I think all sides could learn from each other. having thoughts/beliefs challenged is a good thing, imo, because it helps us realize *why* we believe what we do. It's borderline tragic when people say they believe this or that and don't have a clue as to why ~ I'm not saying we should all be able to argue our views til the cows come home, but I do think we all should at least have a basic grasp on why we believe what we do ~ and discussing it is a great way to do that.

Have you seen the Universe series on television ~ amazing, esp. when they start discussing alternate realities and such. I bet you'd enjoy it a great deal if you don't already watch it Smile
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Pearl
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:50 pm

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:
The number one rebuttal we get when speaking to a non-believer regarding the Bible is that they cant believe in it because it was written by man. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible that refer to the Word of God being infallible and inspired by God, but to the non-believers that is not proof.



All Scripture is God-breathed".

One of the biggest arguments from the non-believer is that science cant prove the Bible. Not only is this not accurate, but the reality is science cant prove anything that is not able to be recreated. I mean, can science prove that George Washington was the first president or that Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist? The answer is no, science can only prove what can be recreated in a controlled environment. When we refer to history and historical events, we must look at written and oral evidence. Its fair to say that most of us know who Napoleon is or what Christopher Columbus is known for, but this is not because science proved it; rather, because historical evidence has shown this to be factual.



The Bible is the most widely researched, studied and documented piece of literature in all of antiquity. There is no other book that has attempted to be discredited more than the Bible, and when you think about it, in the over 2000 years since the Bible has been in circulation, no one has been able to disprove it. In fact, more than 80% of the Bibles people, places and stories have been historically and archeologically proven.





Nelson Glueck, a respected Jewish archaeologist, claims, It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference. Thousands of religious leaders, scientists and historians have made attempts at discrediting the Bible to no avail, and what used to be arguments regarding the inaccuracies of the Bible, modern science ironically enough has proven otherwise.

The completed Bible and all of its 66 books took more than 1500 years to complete. It was written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents in 3 different languages. However, the continuity of the message has been unparalleled and unwavering: Gods redemption of mankind. This in itself speaks of a divine Creator, a higher power that inspired these individuals, who more often than not did not know of each other or the message they were spreading. There is no other piece of literature in all of history that has this type of continuity of message or hand in creation. Ancient manuscripts of both the Old and New Testaments continue to be unearthed, and when we compare the number of ancient manuscripts from the Bible to any other piece of literature in history, the results are overwhelming.

Although it was first written on perishable materials, and had to be copied and recopied for hundreds of years before the invention of the printing press, the Scriptures have never

diminished in style or accuracy, nor have they ever faced extinction. The evidence of its reliability is based on the number of ancient manuscripts which have been located, and the comparisons from the original to the current texts. It is the comparison of the original writings to the ones which have continued to be passed down through the years that proves it to be an accurate document. Below is a breakdown of some popular historical events and the number of manuscripts we have on them:

. Caesars Gallic Wars- 10

. Tactius Annals- 20

. Homers Illiad- 643

. Williams Shakespeares work- 420

Compare those numbers to that of the total number of New Testament manuscripts collected from archeology and antiquity 24,970 (and counting). One may ask, Why does the Bible have so many manuscripts? and the reason can easily be explained in the book of Isaiah 40:8, The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.

Another major aspect of the Bibles authenticity is the element of predictive prophesies. The Bible is the only religious book that contains prophecy that has proven to become true. Approximately 70% of biblical prophecy has been fulfilled to date. Give history enough time, and it will catch up to the Bible. Heres a list of some specifically fulfilled prophecies:

. Obadiah 1:4- Destruction of Edom

. Isaiah 11:11- Israel re-gathered to the promised land

. 1 Kings 13:2- Man named Josiah would rule from Judah and destroy pagan altars (300 years before he was born)

. Isaiah 44:28- Man named Cyrus would overcome Babylon (150 years before he was born)

Then we have Messianic prophesies (which are more than 300):

. Timing of His coming- Daniel 9:25

. Birthplace- Micah 5:2

. Virgin Birth- Isaiah 7:14

. Betrayal- Psalm 41:9

. Crucifixion- Psalm 22:16 (centuries before crucifixion was ever practiced)

The statistical probability of one man fulfilling only 8 of these prophecies are 10^117 power (a 10 followed by 17 zeros). To give you an example, that is like filling the entire state of Texas with silver dollars 2 feet deep and marking one of them with an X. Then you would blindfold a man, and tell him to pick up one silver dollar, and have him pick (on his first try) the marked coin. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies; conversely, the Muslims Koran, Hindus Vedas, Buddhists Tripitaka, and all other religious books lack any prophetic element. Only God can do that!

Lastly, although the Bible never claims to be a scientific textbook, it makes scientific statements that predate official discoveries by several centuries:

. Earth is a sphere- Isaiah 40:22 (not proven until 1600 years later)

. Water cycle keeps land watered- Job 36:27-28 (2500 year gap)

. Earth is suspended in space- Job 26:7- (3600 year gap)

. Ocean currents flow through the sea- Psalms 8:8 (2800 year gap)

. Earths crust rests upon a foundation- Job 38:4 (4000 year gap)

When you look at all the evidence, both historically and scientifically, it is impossible to deny that the Bible was created with divine inspiration. It was the Holy Spirit which led these men to create the Bible in order to convey the message of redemption to man, and I trust that this evidence will open your eyes to see that. Truth can stand examination. Psalm 147:5 says, Great is out Lord! His power is absolute! His understanding is beyond comprehension!

Lake, just a quick question on the text you shared ~ have you ever given a look-see to how Jews perceive the Messiah? If you research it, you'll see that the Christian Messiah does not meet any of the criteria for the Jewish Messiah, other than the fact that both are to be Jewish.

I don't want to sound snarky in asking, I truly don't, it is just that before I learned what I believe to be 'true' I fell for that hook, line, and sinker, without even knowing what Jews themselves were looking for in a messiah.

if you want a quick run down, you can visit whatjewsbelieve.org and read for yourself, it might be a good spring board to look in to the 'over 300 fulfilled' prophecies and either edify your current beliefs, or learn why Jesus is not the messiah according to the criteria set forth long before Jesus came on the scene.

Again, I'm not trying to be snarky or rude or even to hijack Joc's thread, just wanted to share.
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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:02 pm

Pearl wrote: ""Maybe not 'conflict' per se, but ah honest, healthy debate never hurt anyone ""

Excellent comments, I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

But I must disagree - without some level of conflict; it's all somewhat bland, actually. Conflict engenders passion and helps to fire up the soul.

Our House of Representatives is based on conflict (and conflict resolution) – our two (sometimes three?) party sys. is actually based on conflict.

Our human experience is based on conflict. Conflict is a part of life.

Negotiations, conflict resolution, etc., is how we as a culture, how we as a people, accomplish everything.

Conflict isn’t a four-letter word – it’s seven, right?

Cheers
Jocariah

.
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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:08 pm

Pearl wrote: ""Again, I'm not trying to be snarky or rude or even to hijack Joc's thread, just wanted to share.""

You bring up a good point, Pearl - in my opinion, the best threads end up no where near where they start - but take on a life of their own and go wherever 'they' choose', based entirely on the interactions of those involved.

Cheers
Jocariah

...
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:23 pm

Pearl wrote:
LakehurstNJwitness wrote:
The number one rebuttal we get when speaking to a non-believer regarding the Bible is that they cant believe in it because it was written by man. There are numerous scriptures in the Bible that refer to the Word of God being infallible and inspired by God, but to the non-believers that is not proof.



All Scripture is God-breathed".

One of the biggest arguments from the non-believer is that science cant prove the Bible. Not only is this not accurate, but the reality is science cant prove anything that is not able to be recreated. I mean, can science prove that George Washington was the first president or that Martin Luther King was a civil rights activist? The answer is no, science can only prove what can be recreated in a controlled environment. When we refer to history and historical events, we must look at written and oral evidence. Its fair to say that most of us know who Napoleon is or what Christopher Columbus is known for, but this is not because science proved it; rather, because historical evidence has shown this to be factual.



The Bible is the most widely researched, studied and documented piece of literature in all of antiquity. There is no other book that has attempted to be discredited more than the Bible, and when you think about it, in the over 2000 years since the Bible has been in circulation, no one has been able to disprove it. In fact, more than 80% of the Bibles people, places and stories have been historically and archeologically proven.





Nelson Glueck, a respected Jewish archaeologist, claims, It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contradicted a biblical reference. Thousands of religious leaders, scientists and historians have made attempts at discrediting the Bible to no avail, and what used to be arguments regarding the inaccuracies of the Bible, modern science ironically enough has proven otherwise.

The completed Bible and all of its 66 books took more than 1500 years to complete. It was written by 40 different authors on 3 different continents in 3 different languages. However, the continuity of the message has been unparalleled and unwavering: Gods redemption of mankind. This in itself speaks of a divine Creator, a higher power that inspired these individuals, who more often than not did not know of each other or the message they were spreading. There is no other piece of literature in all of history that has this type of continuity of message or hand in creation. Ancient manuscripts of both the Old and New Testaments continue to be unearthed, and when we compare the number of ancient manuscripts from the Bible to any other piece of literature in history, the results are overwhelming.

Although it was first written on perishable materials, and had to be copied and recopied for hundreds of years before the invention of the printing press, the Scriptures have never

diminished in style or accuracy, nor have they ever faced extinction. The evidence of its reliability is based on the number of ancient manuscripts which have been located, and the comparisons from the original to the current texts. It is the comparison of the original writings to the ones which have continued to be passed down through the years that proves it to be an accurate document. Below is a breakdown of some popular historical events and the number of manuscripts we have on them:

. Caesars Gallic Wars- 10

. Tactius Annals- 20

. Homers Illiad- 643

. Williams Shakespeares work- 420

Compare those numbers to that of the total number of New Testament manuscripts collected from archeology and antiquity 24,970 (and counting). One may ask, Why does the Bible have so many manuscripts? and the reason can easily be explained in the book of Isaiah 40:8, The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever.

Another major aspect of the Bibles authenticity is the element of predictive prophesies. The Bible is the only religious book that contains prophecy that has proven to become true. Approximately 70% of biblical prophecy has been fulfilled to date. Give history enough time, and it will catch up to the Bible. Heres a list of some specifically fulfilled prophecies:

. Obadiah 1:4- Destruction of Edom

. Isaiah 11:11- Israel re-gathered to the promised land

. 1 Kings 13:2- Man named Josiah would rule from Judah and destroy pagan altars (300 years before he was born)

. Isaiah 44:28- Man named Cyrus would overcome Babylon (150 years before he was born)

Then we have Messianic prophesies (which are more than 300):

. Timing of His coming- Daniel 9:25

. Birthplace- Micah 5:2

. Virgin Birth- Isaiah 7:14

. Betrayal- Psalm 41:9

. Crucifixion- Psalm 22:16 (centuries before crucifixion was ever practiced)

The statistical probability of one man fulfilling only 8 of these prophecies are 10^117 power (a 10 followed by 17 zeros). To give you an example, that is like filling the entire state of Texas with silver dollars 2 feet deep and marking one of them with an X. Then you would blindfold a man, and tell him to pick up one silver dollar, and have him pick (on his first try) the marked coin. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies; conversely, the Muslims Koran, Hindus Vedas, Buddhists Tripitaka, and all other religious books lack any prophetic element. Only God can do that!

Lastly, although the Bible never claims to be a scientific textbook, it makes scientific statements that predate official discoveries by several centuries:

. Earth is a sphere- Isaiah 40:22 (not proven until 1600 years later)

. Water cycle keeps land watered- Job 36:27-28 (2500 year gap)

. Earth is suspended in space- Job 26:7- (3600 year gap)

. Ocean currents flow through the sea- Psalms 8:8 (2800 year gap)

. Earths crust rests upon a foundation- Job 38:4 (4000 year gap)

When you look at all the evidence, both historically and scientifically, it is impossible to deny that the Bible was created with divine inspiration. It was the Holy Spirit which led these men to create the Bible in order to convey the message of redemption to man, and I trust that this evidence will open your eyes to see that. Truth can stand examination. Psalm 147:5 says, Great is out Lord! His power is absolute! His understanding is beyond comprehension!

Lake, just a quick question on the text you shared ~ have you ever given a look-see to how Jews perceive the Messiah? If you research it, you'll see that the Christian Messiah does not meet any of the criteria for the Jewish Messiah, other than the fact that both are to be Jewish.

I don't want to sound snarky in asking, I truly don't, it is just that before I learned what I believe to be 'true' I fell for that hook, line, and sinker, without even knowing what Jews themselves were looking for in a messiah.

if you want a quick run down, you can visit whatjewsbelieve.org and read for yourself, it might be a good spring board to look in to the 'over 300 fulfilled' prophecies and either edify your current beliefs, or learn why Jesus is not the messiah according to the criteria set forth long before Jesus came on the scene.

Again, I'm not trying to be snarky or rude or even to hijack Joc's thread, just wanted to share.


Thank you Pearl , i'm always open to reading new things and learning more about others beliefs. It won't change my beliefs that Jesus is the Savior that the old testament was talking about, but I appreciate your kind offer. Are you willing to reconsider your beliefs and acknowledge that maybe what you read could be wrong? Just because someone writes their opinions about something doesn't always make it true, I choose to stick to the word of God on the subject....if your messiah shows up and proves the bible to be wrong about Jesus then a whole lot of people got it wrong and Gods Word would then be wrong... I don't think thats going to happen, I trust that God got it right and by the looks of world events the bible is right on track with exactly what Jesus said would be happening.

Now if a false Messiah shows up right before Jesus does, which is predicted in the bible, then people who are waiting for a different one could easily be deceived into following the anti-christ , satan, which the book of revelations warns of. This is why the UFO picture is and could be tied into a big deception in the end times.
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:29 pm

Jocariah wrote:
What is Plagiarism?

Here's a great LINK from Plagiarism dot Org
LINK:
http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.html


Apparently (and once again) LakehurstNJwitness has no issue 'cutting ans pasting' the words of others...and without the proper credit due.

Here's the website it came from 'word-for-word'
LINK:
http://www.weusedtobeyou.com/2009/05/22/so-you-think-the-bible-is-real-prove-it-to-me/


From my perspective, these are the actions of a 'Troll', too lazy to write her own words, and too ignorant to give credit to the works of others, until she gets caught.

Cheers
Jocariah

.



I thought it was pretty obvious that I cut & pasted that piece , Its obviously not my writing style and I don't have the time to do all that research , I was just sharing some of the evidence that supports the Bibles authenticity. If you want to do the research and give the original author credit go ahead, knock yourself out, I didn't see any authors name where I found this piece posted.

But getting back to your "channelings" Jocariah .... have you named the spirit or being who is responsible for the things you write?
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:59 pm

I'm not responsible for anything I do, I have no free will, I'm just simply following the script that I've been given (according to Jocariah) , so why would anything upset him? None of us are in control, right?

LOL lol! bounce





( Evil or Very Mad Jocariah Evil or Very Mad )
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:06 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Like good television, perhaps good forum needs a dash of conflict, as well.

Cheers
Jocariah

.



YOU WANT CONFLICT ???


YOU CAN'T HANDLE CONFLICT !
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:07 pm

Jocariah wrote:
What is Plagiarism?

Here's a great LINK from Plagiarism dot Org
LINK:
http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.html


Apparently (and once again) LakehurstNJwitness has no issue 'cutting ans pasting' the words of others...and without the proper credit due.

Here's the website it came from 'word-for-word'
LINK:
http://www.weusedtobeyou.com/2009/05/22/so-you-think-the-bible-is-real-prove-it-to-me/


From my perspective, these are the actions of a 'Troll', too lazy to write her own words, and too ignorant to give credit to the works of others, until she gets caught.

Cheers
Jocariah

.


TRANSLATION : "WAAAHHHHH WAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH"
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:55 pm

Now this is getting just plain sad … I really feel sorry for this woman

.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:13 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Now this is getting just plain sad … I really feel sorry for this woman

.



You can't feel sorry unless you're script says you can feel sorry ... don't make us come abduct you again and re-program you mister , this is the same attitude that got you abducted in the first place. How does it feel to have my will imposed upon you?
Now tell us who is not following the script here , is it me or you? Or is this the script , me screwing around with your mind?
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:08 am

Well, the mature, rational discussion was nice while it lasted Embarassed

Again, I mean no offense, Lake, but is it really productive to get nasty like that? I know I don't always succeed in conveying my thoughts in a manner that's non-offensive to all (though I do make an attempt) but some of the things you posted were, in addition to making no sense, a bit on the harsh side Sad

It seems to me that you're sort of calling the kettle black by your snipes, because you don't share the views of others, but want them to accept yours. Very odd, but I have noticed that certain Christian sects are indeed like that ~ they are right, even when proven wrong Wink That's wonderful if you're happy with your views, I would never begrudge anyone the right to believe as they choose, but at the same time, if you want to be taken seriously and respected, it might be a good idea to show respect as well ~ maybe you were joking with the above snipes, but perhaps it would be good to clarify that, because rather than coming across as wise, or even witty, it comes across as a bit ... well, frightening to think that that is how a mature adult responds.

Just to emphasize, I fully understand that your posts could have been misconstrued, and I am also completely aware that not all of my words/thoughts come across as I think they do, but after the first few "snipes" I began to wonder, and share a bit in Joc's feeling sorry sentiment ......
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:20 am

Pearll wrote: ""but after the first few "snipes" I began to wonder, and share a bit in Joc's feeling sorry sentiment ......""

Perhaps she just needs to learn how to act within this type of setting, Pearl, which is fine. We all have various learning curves and personally, I for one would never want to discourage anyone from participating on any thread. I think we are all here for a reason - whether that reason is known to us or not.

This is not the first time this type of thing has happened to me. Apparently, me being a Contactee seems to threaten some people on some level which, to be honest, I can't seem to comprehend - but then, that may be part of my learning curve.

Cheers
Jocariah

.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:22 pm

[quote="Pearl"]Well, the mature, rational discussion was nice while it lasted Embarassed

Again, I mean no offense, Lake, but is it really productive to get nasty like that? I know I don't always succeed in conveying my thoughts in a manner that's non-offensive to all (though I do make an attempt) but some of the things you posted were, in addition to making no sense, a bit on the harsh side Sad

It seems to me that you're sort of calling the kettle black by your snipes, because you don't share the views of others, but want them to accept yours. Very odd, but I have noticed that certain Christian sects are indeed like that ~ they are right, even when proven wrong Wink That's wonderful if you're happy with your views, I would never begrudge anyone the right to believe as they choose, but at the same time, if you want to be taken seriously and respected, it might be a good idea to show respect as well ~ maybe you were joking with the above snipes, but perhaps it would be good to clarify that, because rather than coming across as wise, or even witty, it comes across below, please show me where I was mean and nasty to you Pearl , thanks.


my original response to Pearl ....
Thank you Pearl , i'm always open to reading new things and learning more about others beliefs. It won't change my beliefs that Jesus is the Savior that the old testament was talking about, but I appreciate your kind offer. Are you willing to reconsider your beliefs and acknowledge that maybe what you read could be wrong? Just because someone writes their opinions about something doesn't always make it true, I choose to stick to the word of God on the subject....if your messiah shows up and proves the bible to be wrong about Jesus then a whole lot of people got it wrong and Gods Word would then be wrong... I don't think thats going to happen, I trust that God got it right and by the looks of world events the bible is right on track with exactly what Jesus said would be happening.

Now if a false Messiah shows up right before Jesus does, which is predicted in the bible, then people who are waiting for a different one could easily be deceived into following the anti-christ , satan, which the book of revelations warns of. This is why the UFO picture is and could be tied into a big deception in the end times.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:33 pm

Pearl ... I thought my response to you was polite , can you please clarify where I was rude in my response to you? Thank you.



My response to Jocariah were meant for her, she was getting a little dose of her own medicine in order to make a point about how she responds to me, Mike Good and anyone else she happens to be ridiculing at that moment. I guess you missed her barbs and taunts or maybe they went over your head and you didn't realize she was mocking us. Jocariah is not a very nice person and has already tried to bash me for being a christian, so we got off to a bad start before you started posting here. And by the way, you too seem to have some underlying bias against christians too by what you posted to me , thats too bad that you would hold such ill feelings towards billions of people based on your own misguided views of christianity. You act as if you know for as fact that christianity is wrong , very sad and very immature on your part.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:39 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Pearll wrote: ""but after the first few "snipes" I began to wonder, and share a bit in Joc's feeling sorry sentiment ......""

Perhaps she just needs to learn how to act within this type of setting, Pearl, which is fine. We all have various learning curves and personally, I for one would never want to discourage anyone from participating on any thread. I think we are all here for a reason - whether that reason is known to us or not.

This is not the first time this type of thing has happened to me. Apparently, me being a Contactee seems to threaten some people on some level which, to be honest, I can't seem to comprehend - but then, that may be part of my learning curve.

Cheers
Jocariah

.



Agreed .. I don't think Pearl has a full understanding of what the history has been around here. Maybe Pearl isn't aware that you have been condesending towards anyone who questioned or challenged your messages like Mike Good did in this thread. You openly tried to screw with Mike for no reason other than he was in disagreement, you then post a message that all of us are too stupid on this board.... I'm surprised Pearl ignored those taunts since she seems so concerned about how we all treat each other here.

My posts to Jocariah were only meant to give Jocariah a dose of her own medicine ... which she obviously didn't like ..lol

You reap what you sow.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:41 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Usually, when I talk about this stuff, there are at least one or two people that have an Ahh Haa moment, and get it.

Maybe I just need to get in front of a brighter crowd.

Cheers
Jocariah

.




this taunt must've went over Pearls head .... whoooooooooooosh
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:43 pm

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:
"Maybe I just need to get in front of a brighter crowd."


I'm certain that's it! Truly, your contributions here are as pearls cast before swine, rye seeds sown on rocky faces -- a ball punted into the tallest of our tallest grasses! We're (I'm) not worthy. I'll miss you when you go. Sum our (my) faults before you do though, in a long tedious piece of ire, regret, and bitterness. Name names. Burn bridges. Write bad checks.

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com




Pearl must've missed this response back to Jocariah ... a sarcastic response to Jocariah's slap to the face of the members of this board.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:48 pm

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:
Oooo, such deliberate jousting! Such economy of wit! I swoon! Verily. All that and the big irony too. No seriously, you stride the message board like a philosophical colossus. Everyone! Run! Hide!

What grain of sand now condescends to lecture we remaining sand grains today as regards the "way things are." Sand grains who would presuppose their own relevance, I suspect, to lecture other sand grains as to the best way to make a sandwich forgetting irrelevant intelligence assessments as insulting as they are self-revealing, eh?

Are you really too cool for this room? Are you really?!




Pearl must not have understood this response back to Jocariah ..... making fun of the way Jocariah talks down to and ridicules anyone who doesn't agree with her posts ....

Pearl needs to understand that when we respond back to Jocariah in kind... Pearl shouldn't take it as a response to Pearl .... Pearl doesn't have to defend Jocariah lie a mother hen looking out for her troubled little chick ... if jocariah wants to talk down to people than she will have to deal with being talked down to in return... Pearl needs to understand that.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:55 pm

Jocariahs little slap at christianity ....

"The writers of the Judeo-Christian belief system got it right. Written within that belief system is a way for people to be able to base their beliefs without any evidence whatsoever…hence ‘faith’. And written therein, the more ‘faith’ one had the better, the closer to God he or she was…’Brilliant!” Look at me God, I have ‘faith’…no evidence necessary, aren’t I a good and ‘faith’-ful follower. …’Brilliant!’

And here's the best part, those speaking against the ridiculousness of all of this are Blasphemers and of Satan...'Brilliant!"

This is the ultimate 'closed loop' in terms of our thought process.

No wonder believers fight so hard when it comes to all of this - they have to overcome their own doubt and sense of absurdity of it all.

Cheers
Jocariah








Pearl needs to try and understand that us christians will stand up and defend our beliefs and our God against such spew ... Pearl shouldn't get bent out of shape just because I give a little does of medicine back to Jocariah like she enjoys giving to others.

Jocariah wants everybody to agree with her messages from an alien , she doesn't want anyone to challenge the aliens messages , and she sure doesn't want any religious aspects introduced into the debate ...lol
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:00 pm

Jocariah wrote:
Usually, when I talk about this stuff, there are at least one or two people that have an Ahh Haa moment, and get it.

Maybe I just need to get in front of a brighter crowd.

Cheers
Jocariah

.





this is where the discussion took a downward turn , once Jocariah realized everybody wasn't agreeing with his opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:42 pm

No, Lake, the rest of the thread didn't "whooooosh" over my head :rolleyes: I noticed the other comments (hence my replying to them :lightbulb: ) and sharing my ever so valuable 2 cents (sarcasm there :p )

Apparently, I need to find the ignore button LOL. (it's hiiiiiiiiiiding)

What I have noticed is that pretty much your response to anyone is either sniping, or "whoooooooosh" we just don't understand ya :p and of course some Bible quotes "proving" you right.

I was not looking to start a pee pee match with you ~ I was pointing out, in as friendly of a manner as I could, that if you want people to take you and your position seriously, you may want to tone done the "barbs".

Too, it might do you well to research some ~ in your reply to Joc's pointing out that you did a copy/paste bit, you noted that you don't have time to research. May I suggest that you do make the time to research ~ because if you DO, then you'd have more to back your ideas up with (that's something I need to do more of as well, so I am not being snarky with that suggestion).

You see, for example, your views of the Jewish messiah are not based on understanding of the belief system (well, they're based on yours, but not on the Jewish beliefs, LOL). You suggested that I reevaluate my views ~ which I do often, BUT, you also said that the views were based on in summary, crapola, which is not true. If you take the time to see what the JEWISH messiah is to be, you will see that Jesus isn't it ~ and if you took the time to learn WHY, you might have a better understanding of others, as well as yourself. Am I trying to convert you? Absolutely NOT ~ I don't think my beliefs are any better than anyone else's, what I am trying to do is encourage you to look at why you believe what you do, and see that it might be a good idea to get even a basic grasp of other belief systems before putting your own out there as "the one". Jesus is the Christian messiah, not the Jewish one (we're not blind, hearts not hardened or any of those other 'explanations' as to why we don't love jesus :rolleyes: ) ~ and that Christianity is *NOT* the basis of the Universe, it's not PROOF of, or for, anything other than your belief system.

Get a good copy of the Tanakh, and in it you will find ALL of the JEWISH scriptures ~ compare it to your Christian "Old Testament" notably in the areas in which you claim to have over 300 "prophecies" that Jesus fulfilled ~ because in the JEWISH texts, those "proofs" are not there. And, considering the Jewish scriptures have NEVER changed in over 2500+ years, I think we've got the upper hand on what G-d allegedly did and did not say Smile Just sayin Smile

Are you wrong? Am I wrong? NOPE. We just see things differently. We're ALL free to believe what we choose to believe, but it does get a little grating when one such as yourself claims to hold the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when you've got not one iota of evidence ~ I take my beliefs on faith, I am not foolish enough to think that just because my religious texts say something that they are irrefutable ~ we were not there, we don't know if HaShem spoke to Moses or anyone else, and more than we know for certain who it is that channels through Joc ~ it could be HaShem for all we know. The prophets of old could have been hearing from aliens, they could have been tapping in to the collective conscience, it's NOT provable one way or the other, so we each make a decision as to what we believe, plain and simple, and no one's beliefs are any better than another ~ I guess in short it just burns me a little when you post the Bible as "fact" ~ esp. when a lot of what you're referring to are mistranslations from the original Hebrew (such as the alleged references to Jesus on the "old testament").

i doubt you'd like a Muslim telling you how the Quran holds all the truths of the world ~ because you know, Muhammad claimed to receive it from G-d and His angels. Who are we to say they're wrong? Who knows, maybe he did. My point ~ just because it's written in someone's holy book doesn't make it "evidence" of anything ~ your version of the Bible is no better than the Quran ~ a Muslim has just as much faith in their book as you do in yours, yet I'd wager you don't put much in to their books any more than you put them in Joc's claims (or else you'd have let the satan angle go by now) or Jewish texts.

Perhaps it''s the learning curve Wink I know I've got more to learn than I can even imagine, so none of us are alone in that Smile

Now where is that button...... scratch lol!
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PostSubject: Re: There is No Free Will: We Simply Follow Our Script!   Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 pm

LakehurstNJwitness wrote:
Alfred Lehmberg wrote:
Oooo, such deliberate jousting! Such economy of wit! I swoon! Verily. All that and the big irony too. No seriously, you stride the message board like a philosophical colossus. Everyone! Run! Hide!

What grain of sand now condescends to lecture we remaining sand grains today as regards the "way things are." Sand grains who would presuppose their own relevance, I suspect, to lecture other sand grains as to the best way to make a sandwich forgetting irrelevant intelligence assessments as insulting as they are self-revealing, eh?

Are you really too cool for this room? Are you really?!




Pearl must not have understood this response back to Jocariah ..... making fun of the way Jocariah talks down to and ridicules anyone who doesn't agree with her posts ....

Pearl needs to understand that when we respond back to Jocariah in kind... Pearl shouldn't take it as a response to Pearl .... Pearl doesn't have to defend Jocariah lie a mother hen looking out for her troubled little chick ... if jocariah wants to talk down to people than she will have to deal with being talked down to in return... Pearl needs to understand that.

Wow, just when I thought you couldn't be any more condescending, you manage to surprise me LOL

"PEARL" understands, truly, she does geek

What PEARL was pointing out was PEARL's views on LAKE's actions, yet LAKE seems to think that pointing the finger at others makes LAKE in the right. PEARL was not trying to defend Joc, PEARL was using LAKE's sniping posts to illustrate a point.

:rolleyes:
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