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 Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.

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PostSubject: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Tue May 26, 2009 6:37 pm

Researcher Frank Warren has a blog on the debris found at Roswell that shows it to be extraterrestrial. Several people confirm the documents exist, and memos found refer to such documents existing. This stunning bit of news shows that even old cases such as the 62 year old Roswell Crash always are developing something new. Here is the blog:

http://www.theufochronicles.com/search?q=roswell+debris

The article itself is quite fascinating, and has more to it than the usual third person statements attributed to this case.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Tue May 26, 2009 8:10 pm

Hi kidflash2008. Very Happy I caught Frank Warren's "distribution" elsewhere. He does come up with interesting material from time to time. Thumbs-up.

I agree; 62 years and still "ticking".

Damn-shame the researchers can only find references to the original "Second Report" and nothing at all of the alleged "first" report. It would seem that the documents which may "show" what your thread title claims are "unavailable". Very Happy Were you aware that Battelle was active in Canada? With the NRC, AECL, AVRO, Orenda and several mining consortiums? Smile. Very Happy

I have a trip to the National Archives of the third space-faring nation coming-up soon for a different matter. It's "funny" where reports and things like memos and purchase orders and contracts and their copies may or may not "end up".

I hope the "new" book promotion goes stunningly-well for the authors. It "should" sell well into the current marketplace. Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Wed May 27, 2009 5:41 pm

The main idea is to collect every little bit of evidence as it develops. I think the original documents are probably classified, but they are mentioned in the memos that were found by the researchers. It does give credence to the idea of what the witnesses saw on the ranch at the time of the Roswell crash.

The small pieces of information are making a strong case for the crash when they are put together.

I guess it does help to sell the researchers books, but they do have to make a living. (That aspect has always makes me a bit uncomfortable, as there are those who are only in ufology to sell books and DVDs.)
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Wed May 27, 2009 8:06 pm

Yes, yes. Many composite bread crumbs may a "loaf' make. Very Happy Reverse-engineering at it's best.

Interesting "crew" at Battelle over the years, far more interesting research though. I was "cruising" some journals looking for a flexible plasma-spray arc application possible in the 1924 - 1944 timeframe. Battelle "pops-up" regularly in searches that are non-date constrained. Very Happy

Better-yet - H Gerdian, a German fellow invented "what I need" seemingly in 1905 and the process was "industrialized" as early as 1920 - and bonus; the thermal properties and semi-conductance and multi-metal-ceramic of such a process potentially eliminates several very problematic aspects I encountered in other research - Thanks Battelle. Very Happy

Ah, those "missing" NiTi docs? Perhaps Mr. Bragalia may want to look in Toronto Ohio on an outside "gamble". Big smile. Wink.

Battelle has been very, very active. So has "Westinghouse" and "Alter NRG" - have a look if you feel so inclined kidflash2008 and especially Mike Good. Westinghouse makes "good" MIRVs and by some accounts (Buehler, 2006 Oral History) were made possible by the impetus behind SMA development in 1958 for re-entry vehicles for N-warheads of the day. 'Buncha GE stuff too.

To quote Bill Birnes, "Hide it in plain sight."

I can't say personally whether the report of these reports lends credence to the ETH nor "other" Roswell worldviews (for me) but be assured if authentic they would not tend to detract from "other" nor ETH constructs. Me? Roswell? Answer: "All of the above". Maybe. LOL. Very muddy, everyone deserves to work "in clear conscience" and make a living.

You never know what may be laying-about in the name of "Battelle" until one looks. Very Happy

Cheers,

Fix'

P.S. Yup, '62 years - takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Wed May 27, 2009 9:12 pm

Hmmm. From Buehler's 2006 Oral History (link in previous post):

"During the summer of 1958, I spent about one week at the Library of Congress. While there, I primarily searched through Max Hansen’s lengthy text, Constitution of Binary Alloys (1958), for intermetallic compound alloys that met my predetermined criteria. Around sixty compound systems were selected. These were, for numerous reasons, reduced to twelve compound systems. The equiatomic nickel-titanium (basic NITINOL) was one of the twelve selected for further study."

It would appear that NiTi may have "different" sources? Max Hansen? Dr. Max Hansen? The plot thickens; 1936 Germany, Hansen publishes the Binary Phase diagrams. From another journal:

"Central to physical metallurgy are phase diagrams, whose first major compilation was Binary Phase Diagrams by Max Hansen in 1936, which has undergone revisions and generated successors published by the American Society of Metals, a series continuing and covering substantial ground in ternary and quaternary diagrams."

I hope this fellow wasn't the SS Hansen, likely not. Same name and nationality.

I'd bet there's a diagram for Nickel, Titanium, Beryllium and Quicksilver. Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Fri May 29, 2009 3:17 am

Fixer wrote:
Yes, yes. Many composite bread crumbs may a "loaf' make. Very Happy Reverse-engineering at it's best.


To quote Bill Birnes,
"Hide it in plain sight." Very Happy

Yeah, preferably in the middle of a big steaming bullcrap sandwich. Cool

Lloyd, thanks for the link. This is one of the most interesting bits of research I have seen in a long time.

Now, just to refresh my memory: which part of the Mogul Balloon train had the memory metal in it? Rolling Eyes

Cheers!!

Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Fri May 29, 2009 8:09 am



http://www.wolaa.org/files/Nitinol_Oral_History.pdf (Search term: Nitinol)

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/sep252001/706.pdf (Search term: Max Hansen)

Bon appetit,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Fri May 29, 2009 5:24 pm

Don't worry, Mike. The Air Force will change its story again...and again...and again.

To me the important fact is that the memos mention the documents which are probably classified. To those who do not think this is much news, why not release the documents as the memory metals are now known to science?

Project Mogul works for the skeptics and debunkers. Never mind researchers have looked at the launches for such and not found any to correspond to the crash. Never mind the Mogul balloon still looks like a balloon (or group of balloons) and would not have fooled the Intelligence officer or Base Commander at that.

It is all the little things and hard work of the investigators to find them that are making the case for Roswell. Documents to show that debris was flown to Fort Worth and then to Wright Patterson AAF. Records indicating high ranking flag officers dispatched to Roswell during a normal down week because of the Independence Day holiday. Testimony from numerous people of guards barricading roads, and many death bed confessions.

I will be honest that even I dismissed the case as a weather balloon. Until I started thinking about the headline in the paper about the crashed disk. Why would a full bird colonel allow for such a headline and not know it was a balloon from the start? Many explanations did not make sense, and I started to dig more and read the better researchers out there. It is the subtle things that are going to sink the government's story, not the big stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:44 am

Strange. Was there not a certain Emmy-winning "researcher" who made similar-ish claims of Roswell debris metallic foil "recovered" from a wedge-shaped craft? I'm guessing around 1996 or so? Bismuth and mag if my memory has the mettle, I may be mistaken.

I wonder if those materials were ever verified as such?

Funny howe these things "pop-up" and recur from time to time. Hmmm. I wonder how Gruenberg and Fert developed GMR foils in 1988 and how IBM integrated GMR Mg-Bi layered "foil" into HDD heads "that fly" commercially back in in 1997?

Perhaps this newer research will have better fortune selling the notion.

Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:25 am

When I think of all of the criminal cases that I worked on and all of the detailed work I did when I was in law enforcement, the one thing that keeps repeating in my mind is that once you commit a crime you can not undo the events that were done. You can try to cover them up but somewhere some how someone will find some of the pieces and put them together with the other ones that were left behind and it will all come together. I think it will only be a mater of time before some little piece of evidence comes to light and it will unravel the whole event. This is the whole premise behind the cold case file workers. There is always something that was overlooked. And what they thought could never be found out 60 years ago, can be tracked down even now.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:09 pm

That is an excellent response, Gort. The problem is once people do something there is some evidence (no matter how little) left behind. Every day it seems new pieces of this puzzle are being found and put together.

Mike, I do think that is a very good point about the mystery metal and the unclassified balloons themselves.

Expect the USAF to now state that they were developing flying disks at the time, and Roswell was one of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:26 am


I know I don't live in New Mexico, let alone Roswell. But it might explain the sighting I had. Joking aside, I wouldn't believe it if they told me that. If they did develop them, the purpose would serve similar to a red herring in a mystery novel. A diversion using a minor issue as a detraction.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:34 am

That is interesting. The last thing I heard was it was a spy balloon for the Russians to test for atomic tests. Doesn't seem to add up though does it. There's a lot they say that doesn't seem to add up to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Documents show debris from Roswell was tested and shown to be extraterrestrial.   Thu May 17, 2012 4:16 pm

Guest wrote:
Don't worry, Mike. The Air Force will change its story again...and again...and again.

To me the important fact is that the memos mention the documents which are probably classified. To those who do not think this is much news, why not release the documents as the memory metals are now known to science?

Project Mogul works for the skeptics and debunkers. Never mind researchers have looked at the launches for such and not found any to correspond to the crash. Never mind the Mogul balloon still looks like a balloon (or group of balloons) and would not have fooled the Intelligence officer or Base Commander at that.

It is all the little things and hard work of the investigators to find them that are making the case for Roswell. Documents to show that debris was flown to Fort Worth and then to Wright Patterson AAF. Records indicating high ranking flag officers dispatched to Roswell during a normal down week because of the Independence Day holiday. Testimony from numerous people of guards barricading roads, and many death bed confessions.

I will be honest that even I dismissed the case as a weather balloon. Until I started thinking about the headline in the paper about the crashed disk. Why would a full bird colonel allow for such a headline and not know it was a balloon from the start? Many explanations did not make sense, and I started to dig more and read the better researchers out there. It is the subtle things that are going to sink the government's story, not the big stuff.

Hey everyone,

First time posting on the boards, so let me give a little background before I jump in. I hold a Master's degree in History from Washington State University and I've got a background in researching formerly classified government programs/investigations. My master's thesis is on the US military investigation into the Japanese biological weapons program, Unit 731, and how the offices of the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers (SCAP) Legal Section screwed up their inquiry into the wartime evidence which lead General MacArthur to promise immunity to the head of the program, General Shiro Ishii, and his subordinates in exchange for bio-medical data.

That being said, it's important to remember that at this point in time, there are no "reports" that anyone has access to that can be labeled as "substantive" enough to prove this guy's case. Just because the US military was experimenting with memory metals during the late 1940s does not mean that they were either extraterrestrial, or salvaged from Roswell. Both Japan and Germany did work with theoretical/experimental metals and metallurgy during the war to gain an edge over American and Soviet tanks and aircraft. It is entirely possible that some of these experiments that were referenced in military documents were made with data captured at the end of the war or traded for in postwar immunity deals with German or Japanese scientists.

In addition, just because the Intel Officer and the Base Commander couldn't identify Mogul Balloons does not eliminate the possibility that they were indeed either Mogul Balloons, or perhaps some other experimental aircraft that we have not been told about yet. Although I've moved from the believer camp over to a much more agnostic viewpoint regarding Roswell and UFOs in general, I still keep an open mind when it comes to things like this. However, I think that a much more likely explanation for Roswell might have been a highly experimental aircraft that went out of control and crashed in Roswell. The Army Air Force might have been doing experiments with a knock off of Willy Horton's HO229 aircraft, or a V-2 might have ended up crashing as well.

The problem with all of the evidence from the viewpoint of a historian is the lack of verifiable periphery evidence. That is, evidence that the Army sent people out to the desert in the first place, evidence that trucks were requisitioned for the retrieval, evidence that Intelligence Officers sent dispatches back to base. Whenever something like this happens, there is a chain of command that has to be observed if anything is to get done. For example, the investigation into Unit 731 took two years from the beginning of the occupation until MacArthur's immunity deal went through for anyone to know a damned thing about what happened. In that time, reports and witness testimony passed up and down the chain of command from field offices working with PBOSRD (Pacific Branch, Office of Scientific Research and Development), up to SCAP, back down to local offices, and the final report went straight to the desk of President Truman.

Intelligence officers might be well trained, but they are hardly ever knowledgeable about every operation that occurs. They request verification of evidence, verification of testimony, from higher-ups. If no verification is received, then they usually leave the evidence at the door and move on. If an intelligence officer is pushed by a member of the media to give an explanation, or has been given a story by his subordinates in the field that something is one thing or another, that intel officer will likely report the story the best way they know how to the media if need be. Even if that officer is a full bird Colonel, they'll report what they can to the press, even if it's outlandish or proves to be wrong. That is also what a PR officer is there for, to keep full bird Colonels from making a fool of themselves in front of the media.

On the eyewitness testimony you mentioned, a lot of the eyewitnesses have had stories that corroborate one another's testimony, but the problem is that eyewitness testimony and oral histories are of their very nature difficult to work with, and difficult to corroborate with available evidence. Sometimes, a interviewee will group one or two events together into one event, or will compile several events into one larger story because that's the way that human memory works. People who work with oral history are trained to weed out things like inconsistencies, or to emphasize them to show how memories of one single event change from person to person based on perspective.

I'd be willing to listen to the evidence if there was enough peripheral evidence to show that something happened, and I guarantee you that it is impossible to classify every single little requisition order or telegram that came in or went out of Roswell Army Air Field during the time of the Roswell "incident." There would be requests for verification, for clarification, or for senior officials higher than base commanders or a general to come out and look at materials collected. There isn't ever one "smoking gun" document that proves anything happened, there are literally thousands of documents that provide a small piece of the puzzle.

If someone were to issue FOIA requests to get base requisitions or personnel requests for recovery efforts that showed that large amounts of people were brought out to the desert and worked on a recovery, then we're on the right track. No one in the military, be they enlisted, officers, or NCOs, are dispatched without piles of paperwork being filed. Pay has to be estimated, hazard pay requested, uniform cleaning requisitioned, fuel requisitioned, truck requisitions, and on and on. None of those documents has ever really been classified by the military. If some skilled researcher could take the time to prove definitively whether or not something indeed happened out there based on periphery documents, whether it was a UFO crash or a military aircraft or rocket test gone awry, then I'd be willing to take the case much more seriously.

Anyways, that's just my two cents, for what it's worth.
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PostSubject: Roswell the MYLAR cover up.   Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Roswell was a mogul balloon its material it was made from MYLAR was the secret. There was one witness the rancher that the balloon landed on his ranch. Marcell was ordered to cover it up he had no idea what a mogul balloon trail was. It was launched from whitesand missle range. The whole lot of debris is in natinal archives along with 120 boxes of material pertanent to the investication. The UFO story was a cover story said in jest to a reporter and it snowballed. See the artifacts on YouTube "Roswell Disclosed" My dad was range officer for whitesands and this balloon was theirs. My Dad told me he was glad he didnt have to go and clean up the mess. He said probally couldnt take a dump without someone sticking a camera in your face.
THere was never any bodies.
There wasnt a disc , but an acre of sagebrush was wraped in mylar.
The sleepy base had no idea what a mogul balloon train was and had to hide it, that made everything get outta hand.
The remains are located in the national archives, A balloon refletor train.
The remains never went to Area 51 they went to wright patterson AFB.
The isnt any impact crater.
The genrals in charge had no idea what a mogul balloon was unless they were directly involved.
Point of origin was whitesands missle range in New Mexico, testing was done there.
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