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 RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979

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Cuf
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PostSubject: RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979   Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:32 am

Hope this is the correct place to put this, new to this site so thats my excuse! Smile

Ok, i was watching the ufo hunters episode regarding the above incident with the deputys car in collision with a ufo and something struck me about it.

The antenna.
The antenna is bent backwards by an apparent collision with an object of unkown origin/character.
I also saw the attempt to bend the substitute antenna wire, however, it was bent using a piece of wood to obviously apply the angle with, but thats not whats strange about it.
I did a few experiments with a wire a couple of hours ago, striking a clamped piece of wire to represent the antenna on the car.
I struck it as fast i could (backhanded) with a piece of rod, several times i repeated this test.
It bent as expected, but it bent at the base where it was clamped, it also bent where it was struck.
And here's the oddity- At the point of impact it bends the opposite way to which its struck!
So, in the case of the deputys patrol car antenna which was facing rearwards, thats not possible if it was struck from the front!
If it was struck from the front (the antenna) then it bends forwards, facing the direction it was struck from!
Has that been noticed before i wonder?
It just kinda leapt out at me so i thought id put it out here for some thoughts to be applied.

Something unrelated to the above case which often narks me about the discussions of ufos and the explanations given by debunkers.
The one thats currently irritating me is: "its probably a military craft/experiment".
Argh! Everytime i hear that, i want to scream.
Why?
Well its puerile, its the dumbest explanation ever.
Military experiments or projects are never going to be "tested" over a populated area.
Imagine the scene..... top secret, multi trillion dollar budget experimental vehicle crashes on a school whilst "testing".
First up, how are they going to retain control of the situation in a built up area with multiple witnesses?
Never happen.
How are they going to manage the fallout from the press/local population at having an exotically powered craft doing as decribed?
Never happen, because only utter fools would "test" unproven vehicles in populated areas.
They wouldnt test them there for the reasons above and for the obvious one; How "secret" is it going to remain if it goes out of control and kills a couple of thousand people on the ground? Advantage lost the minute that happens.
Makes no sense does it?
It also effectively rules out any military tests or experiments using airborne craft, which leads us to the only conclusion possible: These craft dont belong to the military.

Well, thats enough of my ramblings for a first post, ill be around....
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steven8
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PostSubject: Re: RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Well, the story said his eyes suffered from something like welder's burns. Metal can be bent almost anyway you like, if heated enough. Perhaps the same thing which hurt the deputy's eyes radiated the heat which allowed the strange bending on the antennae.

I do not have any real thought on your ideas behind the secret military craft idea, other than to say it makes basic sense.
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Mike Good
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PostSubject: Re: RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979   Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:17 pm

Cuf wrote:

The antenna.
The antenna is bent backwards by an apparent collision with an object of unkown origin/character.
I also saw the attempt to bend the substitute antenna wire, however, it was bent using a piece of wood to obviously apply the angle with, but thats not whats strange about it.
I did a few experiments with a wire a couple of hours ago, striking a clamped piece of wire to represent the antenna on the car.
I struck it as fast i could (backhanded) with a piece of rod, several times i repeated this test.
It bent as expected, but it bent at the base where it was clamped, it also bent where it was struck.
And here's the oddity- At the point of impact it bends the opposite way to which its struck!
So, in the case of the deputys patrol car antenna which was facing rearwards, thats not possible if it was struck from the front!
If it was struck from the front (the antenna) then it bends forwards, facing the direction it was struck from!
Has that been noticed before i wonder?
It just kinda leapt out at me so i thought id put it out here for some thoughts to be applied.


Okay. Did anybody notice the problem with your experiment? Notice the words I highlighted with italics: you hit the antenna with a piece of ROD.

Here are the dynamics of this situation: a rod is an object which would hit the antenna ONLY at an isolated point! The antenna bent against the direction of the blow because it only hit the antenna at a single point. This would not happen with a large object. A large object would hit the tip of the antenna first - bending it in the direction of the blow. Depending on the object, it may then hit the antenna further down from the tip as it moved past it. In either case, the antenna would bend in the direction of the blow.

Your experiment was flawed. It only proved that a rod could not have made the bend suggested by the original story. That doesn't really tell us much of any use in this case......
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Cuf
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PostSubject: Re: RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979   Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:40 am

Thanks for coming back on that Mike.

Ok, so criticism taken on board and the problem revisted with a block of wood about 5 inches across.
Striking the simulated antenna at the tip yields the same result- a bend facing against the direction of object travel, supported by newtons 3rd law-The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear, in other words every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Of course at this point its all conjecture regarding what it was that created the damage to it in the original case.
As i recall from the programme the bug squash on the antenna was still intact, so as suggested by Bill Birnes, if the antenna was bent by the deputy to try and make something up itd be missing or reduced but it wasnt so we can conclude that either something unknown created it via methods not yet established or that it was already bent prior to the incident.

I dont buy the heating up of the material to bend it suggestion either at the moment as to heat stainless wire enough to bend it means it leaves heat marks and oxidation at the point its heated, not to mention the bug squash would be missing.

I would suggest at the moment that occams razor comes into play ( only with respect to the bent antenna) that it was bent prior to the incident, unless theres proof counter to that?

btw, let me establish something- although i consider myself sceptical to a degree, i dont rule out the ufo phenomenon and i do think theres more to it than we are being told.
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Mike Good
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PostSubject: Re: RE: Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encounter, August,1979   Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:18 pm

Cuf,

Wow, you really are not getting this. Your new experiment is only cogent if you propose that whatever hit the antenna was 5 inches across! Is this what you propose? Is that what the deputy reported?

If not, you are comparing raisins and watermelons. Your experiment is flawed. You need to hit the antenna with an airplane. That would be a fair comparison......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Johnson_incident

According to wickipedia the object, whatever it was, knocked out the car's headlight, windshield and the emergency lights on top of the car. Do you still think the object - whatever it was - was only 5 inches wide?

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