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 Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena

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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Sat May 09, 2009 10:51 pm

Q: Why Do Some People Fight So Hard to Dismiss
the Evidence with Regard to the UFO/Abduction Phenomena?

Let's have a closer look at the mechanics of this process:

A) The evidence, regardless of how plentiful or abundant, gets dismissed because it ‘does not’ fit into their worldview.

B) They say (subconsciously perhaps) … “Why should I have to give up my worldview simply because of these questionable phenomena? It is better that I simply dismiss all of this out of hand, regardless of the evidence, rather than try to alter my long-standing worldview.”

C) Fear enters the equation. Fear of the unknown (fear of losing my belief system)- this is a classic human behavior pattern.

D) Subconsciously, they fight to maintain their worldview, rather than having to change it. Because changing it, means they now have to question (and reevaluate) everything they’ve held as being true or valid, throughout their life. It’s as if the rug has been pulled out from under them. Their foundation, or foundational beliefs, have been brought into question, now, and the ramifications of this are far-reaching. Touching every aspect of their lives - their faith, their God, the integrity of their teachers, parents and all those in authority over them.

E) Solution: they MUST fight the evidence at all costs. For them, it is the only possible way to maintain their equilibrium.

F) Now every argument or discussion they encounter with regard to these phenomena becomes a life and death struggle for their belief systems and/or worldview - and has nothing to do with the evidence involved (regardless of the abundance of it) whatsoever.

CONCLUSION: Outwardly, it may appear as if they are arguing the evidence. But they simply fight to maintain their worldview – period!

Cheers,
Jocariah

.


Last edited by Jocariah on Sun May 10, 2009 10:49 am; edited 2 times in total
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: WHAT EVIDENCE?   Sun May 10, 2009 2:01 am

What evidence?

You mentioned the word "evidence" six or seven times, but you didn't provide any.

If you mean "because a person says so" , well that doesn't translate to evidence for most people.

And if it's true that abductions are taking place then we still need to determine if they are being abducted for "good" purposes, or "bad"..... or just out of "curiosity".
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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Sun May 10, 2009 10:46 am

"Case in point!"

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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Sun May 10, 2009 4:07 pm

Cases where there is physical evidence:

1. While Lonnie Zamora was not abducted, the egg-shaped craft left landing traces and small footprints of the occupants. They were photographed in this widely publicized case.

2. Betty and Barney Hill: A torn dress; a pink powder on such dress; scratches on Barney's shoes as he was dragged; several circular marks the size of a quarter on their vehicle; Betty's Starmap; radar confirmation of an unknown object near the sighting at the time by Pease AFB.

These are but a few of the cases where there is physical evidence.
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Mon May 11, 2009 10:49 am

kidflash2008 wrote:
Cases where there is physical evidence:

1. While Lonnie Zamora was not abducted, the egg-shaped craft left landing traces and small footprints of the occupants. They were photographed in this widely publicized case.

2. Betty and Barney Hill: A torn dress; a pink powder on such dress; scratches on Barney's shoes as he was dragged; several circular marks the size of a quarter on their vehicle; Betty's Starmap; radar confirmation of an unknown object near the sighting at the time by Pease AFB.

These are but a few of the cases where there is physical evidence.



Thanks, I was aware of your cases ... but was wondering what evidence Jocariah was speaking of since he kept mentioning all the evidence out there.
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LakehurstNJwitness
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Mon May 11, 2009 11:10 am

Jocariah wrote:
Q: Why Do Some People Fight So Hard to Dismiss
the Evidence with Regard to the UFO/Abduction Phenomena?

Let's have a closer look at the mechanics of this process:

A) The evidence, regardless of how plentiful or abundant, gets dismissed because it ‘does not’ fit into their worldview.

B) They say (subconsciously perhaps) … “Why should I have to give up my worldview simply because of these questionable phenomena? It is better that I simply dismiss all of this out of hand, regardless of the evidence, rather than try to alter my long-standing worldview.”

C) Fear enters the equation. Fear of the unknown (fear of losing my belief system)- this is a classic human behavior pattern.

D) Subconsciously, they fight to maintain their worldview, rather than having to change it. Because changing it, means they now have to question (and reevaluate) everything they’ve held as being true or valid, throughout their life. It’s as if the rug has been pulled out from under them. Their foundation, or foundational beliefs, have been brought into question, now, and the ramifications of this are far-reaching. Touching every aspect of their lives - their faith, their God, the integrity of their teachers, parents and all those in authority over them.

E) Solution: they MUST fight the evidence at all costs. For them, it is the only possible way to maintain their equilibrium.

F) Now every argument or discussion they encounter with regard to these phenomena becomes a life and death struggle for their belief systems and/or worldview - and has nothing to do with the evidence involved (regardless of the abundance of it) whatsoever.

CONCLUSION: Outwardly, it may appear as if they are arguing the evidence. But they simply fight to maintain their worldview – period!

Cheers,
Jocariah

.



Now look at all the points listed above by Jocariah and read thru them again .... but first think of Jocariah standing next to you on top of a building trying to convince you to sep off the ledge 70 stories above the street below.

a) "the evidence" Jocariah contends says you will not get hurt , other people have said they walked off the top of buildings and they just floated safely to the ground, so why can't you just trust me and do it? asks Jocariah

b) why do you hold onto your word-view about stepping off a highrise building? why do you dismiss my evidence that "others" have safely walked off the top of the building? why are you dismissing "my view" ?

c) "fear" ... thats why you don't jump off the building , you're just afraid ... nahh nahhh

d) if they jump off the building it would mean they have to change their belief system and everything they've been taught about jumping off buildings 70 stories up in the air.
Why can't they just stop hanging onto those old belief systems that tell them they will splat on the street below? why do they need proof that its ok to jump? its their stupid belief system thats stopping them isn't it ? that darn belief system keeps getting in the way !

e) they choose to resist my efforts to convince them to jump to their deaths ... they just won't listen to me. why?

f) I blame it all on their stupid belief system that tells them they will die if they jump from the building .... that stupid belief system again, always getting in the way !
why do they have to behave like the creatures they were created to be? why can't they be something they are not? why can't the polar bear try and fly , why does he have to hold onto his belief system and act like a polar bear?

conclussion : outwardly they act like they are discussing the possiblity they might die if they jump , but they are really simply fighting to hold onto their "world view".


Do you see how ridiculous Jocariahs argument is ?

He blames it all on our flawed religious belief system because we won't follow him off the edge of a cliff and into a pit.

We are thankful for our belief system , its what keeps us alive, the way God intended us to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Mon May 11, 2009 4:23 pm

While eyewitness accounts should not be dismissed, all evidence should be collected to figure out what was seen or experienced. Multiple witnesses, airport radar, traces of a landing, sunburn on people, and other evidence should be documented.

All other explanations need to be ruled out. If one of the other explanations is still satisfactory, then the scientific community will use Occam's Razor. Right now, sleep paralysis is used to explain abductions. It has been tested and shown to be a very real condition. Unless other evidence comes in to show a real abduction, science will use sleep paralysis to explain the abduction phenomena.
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Mike Good
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Tue May 12, 2009 1:14 pm

kidflash2008 wrote:
While eyewitness accounts should not be dismissed, all evidence should be collected to figure out what was seen or experienced. Multiple witnesses, airport radar, traces of a landing, sunburn on people, and other evidence should be documented.

All other explanations need to be ruled out. If one of the other explanations is still satisfactory, then the scientific community will use Occam's Razor. Right now, sleep paralysis is used to explain abductions. It has been tested and shown to be a very real condition. Unless other evidence comes in to show a real abduction, science will use sleep paralysis to explain the abduction phenomena.

Kidflash,

Does sleep paralysis explain the Travis Walton case?

http://www.travis-walton.com/index.shtml

Walton's case is one of the most compelling stories out there. The guy literally seems to have disappeared for five days. Boy that must have been one helluva "sleep paralysis".

Randle's theory is only a partial explanation, at best. My personal feeling is that John Mack was perhaps the best of the "abduction" researchers. Unlike people like Budd Hopkins or David Jacobs, he had no presumptive axes to grind. So much so that he was not convinced that, among his subjects, there were necessarily physical abductions at all: preferring to refer to "abductees" as "experiencers".

Mack believed that these are conscious experiences that may or may not have a material element to them. Mack was not so interested in "proving" alien abduction to a disinterested science. He was more interested in exploring the experiential elements of the phenomena and the effects it had on the experiencers.

My personal feeling is that his books, such as "Abduction" and "Passport to the Cosmos" are perhaps the best books on the subject. Mack's untimely death deprived us of one of the most objective voices on the subject.

Cheers!!

Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Tue May 12, 2009 4:22 pm

There are many who think the Travis Walton case is a hoax. Only he and his friend Mike Rogers saw the actual "craft". In his second book Travis states that as fact. The others only saw the bright light and did not see the alleged object approach the truck. The reason they all passed the lie detectors is that they only saw a light.

There were no burn marks in the trees, branches or pine needles on the ground. Mr Walton had stated he was hit by an energy bolt of a low flying craft, and yet no broken branches or other indications of such an object.

Mr Walton failed his lie detector test. While that may not have much meaning, the "researchers" tried to keep it from the press. The suppression effort was uncovered, and the person who administered the test was trashed. The above shows a strong lack of ethics by those who were supposed to investigate the case.

Mr Travis has stated repeatedly he has never made a dime. He received $5000 from the National Enquirer, wrote two books (I did read the second one), and had a movie deal.

Because of certain other facts, I am still on the fence with this case. I do not think it is a strong one to put in with the other, better abduction cases out there. There are way too many holes in this one, and it has divided many researchers.

Sleep paralysis would not explain this one, but many smell a hoax. Every time I write the negatives on the case, I have to go back to see why I am on the fence of this one.

BTW, Kevin Randle does think there is something to the abduction stories. He just thinks a criteria should be set to figure out what is sleep paralysis (or narcolepsy) and what is otherworldly. So far there is no real way to distinguish either. Maj Randle has the greatest respect for Mr Mack. He actually agrees with much of his work.
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Jocariah
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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Wed May 13, 2009 10:58 am

""My personal feeling is that his books, such as "Abduction" and "Passport to the Cosmos" are perhaps the best books on the subject. Mack's untimely death deprived us of one of the most objective voices on the subject.""

John Carpenter, a psychologist from out west as I recall, is another good source, as well. He has worked with nearly 200 Contactees.

Cheers
Jocariah

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PostSubject: Re: Why People Dismiss Evidence in the UFO/Abduction Phenomena   Thu May 14, 2009 4:29 pm

What ufology and the researchers must do is separate sleep paralysis from the other cases. So far, sleep paralysis is a proven medical fact, while abductions are not a proven reality. Which idea will mainstream science accept?

Even the Hill case can be explained with each point. I have stated to many skeptics that all of those coincidences are too many to dismiss the case. They even have stated the radar of Pease AFB was not working at the time when an unknown craft was tracked in the area of the Hill's sightings. That would also mean Jupiter was tracked by radar, if one believes the skeptic's explanation of what was seen before the abduction.

I think all the people who experience these incidents should be taken quite seriously. I think any physical evidence should be collected to help collaborate what is being stated.

Many of the abduction researchers started to agree that hypnotic regression is not very reliable, and they started to look for other ways to prove the abduction phenomenon. That is a step in the right direction, as we all want to know what is happening.

I must agree with Major Kevin Randle on the statement that some may not like the actual truth if it turns out to be a regular down to Earth explanation. Too many people out there want it to be a otherworldly explanation that they do not want to hear all the facts, just the ones to help with their theories. It is the same problem many skeptics and debunkers have with eliminating the facts that do not help their down to Earth explanations.

Goddess bless,

Lloyd
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