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 "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future

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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Thu May 21, 2009 8:55 pm

A compass:


A castle:


A logo:


Another view of a castle:


A smile: Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Thu May 21, 2009 9:19 pm

Better pictures:





Wink. Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Fri May 22, 2009 5:32 pm

I really like the picture of the Freemasons' symbol shown next to the castles. Many of the castles were built by the Knights Templar who preceded the Freemasons as we know them today.

The Knights Templar could be connected to the Glocke in more than one way if you ever start to read up on that group. The Teutonic Knights were the German offshoot of the Knights Templar, and lasted quite a while longer (probably still do). They were interested in subjects like the occult (not satanism), alchemy and other mystery subjects.

Could the Glocke of been an experiment into one of the mystery subjects studied by the ancient groups?
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Sat May 23, 2009 12:23 am

Hi kidflash2008. Very Happy

Yes, "that" castle is "very special"; at one time it was to be the "axis" of the world with the main turret as the 'pole" with it's "arms" circumscribing the world much as the opening of the axis of a compass.

The only common thread is an "order" in the threading - well fabricated - so to speak.

You wrote:

"I really like the picture of the Freemasons' symbol shown next to the castles. Many of the castles were built by the Knights Templar who preceded the Freemasons as we know them today."

Himmler, Kammler, Schauberger, Schumann, Gerlach, Heisenberg, the Auer, the Vril, the Thule, Ahnenerbe and some very interesting associations in today's world of "top-shelf" physics come to mind in sort of an "order".

I am particularly interested in the earliest Vril - Schauberger tests as I believe these were the "kernel" on which further developments employing the Stern-Gerlach effect and at least two others were built. At this time I am disinclined to associate Schauberger with any sort of nuclear physics directly but his approach and supposed connection with Kepler AND an unnamed order who were rumored to have "special" notes on Pythagoras own unpublished theories may just have been the key - 1921 to 1924.

Nice to hear your perspective kidflash2008. Very Happy

Those other pics are helpful to understand what might have been "going-on" with "Die-Glocke" and aspects of perhaps Kecksburg - but only in part - it's a field of fields and it's wavy and windy. LOL. Really. I'll promise to go through it all as completely as I can. "Die-Glocke" used some very ingenious avant-garde ideas that at the time were only available in the human mind and on paper - there were no sims.

Did I mention Kepler? Oops, I guess I did. If you liked the symbol with the big "G" kidflash2008 then this should make you smile - but the other mission that is important to map out "the big picture" beyond those missions and demonstrations that illustrate the "metrics" but of the "why" is - Kepler. That, to my way of thinking points the compass at what may be at the heart a tale older than the Sphinx. Maybe. "Contact" of a sort was surely one goal - in the beginnings - at least. Accidents happen, things sometimes "work" unexpectedly, needs change, learning occurs and is applied.

Kepler:



Kepler Mission Logo:


Kepler at NASA link.

Ever wonder why we haven't annihilated everyone with nukes yet? I do. Ever watch "Dr. Strangelove"? Smile. Ring any bells? I hope not. Very Happy I wonder how much energy it takes to compromise a tectonic plate?

Times up again. More about the importance of LISA and gravitational wave propagation ASAP. Very Happy

Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Sun May 24, 2009 2:33 am

LISA is a very special spacecraft, or rather three spacecraft connected by alignment lasers in a perfect triangle 5 million kilometers on a side. It will calibrate the largest of gravitational radiation sources - collapsed suns, more specifically super-massive black holes rotating each other. These waves of gravitational radiation can't be "seen" but can be inferred and plotted mathematically and graphically rendering topological "maps" of gravity accelerations.

Back when "Die-Glocke" was initially allegedly tested and later during the Kecksburg event this knowledge was not possible and exhibits one of the large-scale forces that would help any current such device "understand the weather". Smaller more localized gravitational events are well-recorded by Earth based interferometery very nicely - the "Big Kahuna waves" require LISA. Very, very, very interesting scientists and science coming out of Max Planck/Albert Einstein Institute these days - busy, busy.

A quick video of two I like that could help explain a bit more about LISA and gravitational wave propagation. How could one "cancel" such a wave? Are some waves so powerful that they represent risk to the bodies in their path of radiation? Very Happy Don't bells help radiate wave-forms? Very Happy


Direct link to the above video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7MuVpM5vfw

Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon May 25, 2009 12:48 pm

I am very happy to have read Nick Cook's, "The Hunt For Point Zero" (the 2002 version with the epilogue updates) - very glad indeed. It may be available online and is well-worth the reading.

It has left "Mother and I collating"... I am now most-interested in Viktor Schauberger and Donner and Ning Li et al. (beyond the scope of this particular thread). Nick Cook's excellent work has left me remarkably encouraged to continue what I felt was just an uneasy-hunch of sorts. Gives one a chill - "this may not be in the best hands" to paraphrase an executive.

I've tried coming by the Witkowski text specific to "Die-Glocke" but with no luck as contact has resulted in some supply delays so I will try and find a copy of it in the library systems and any help would be gladly appreciated.

To Quote Nick Cook from page 223, paragraph 3: "It must have freaked the Americans out."

Freaked-indeed.

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon May 25, 2009 5:29 pm

Hi fixer.

Here is a blog by someone who does not agree with the Nazi disk technology theories (they also do not believe in the ET hypothesis, too). It is an interesting take on where the ideas came from and I thought it would counter some of the claims made by those who believe the Nazis had flying saucers.

http://ufocon.blogspot.com/search?q=the+nazi+lie

Opinions and diversity is good, tell me what you think of this.

Goddess Bless,

Lloyd
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon May 25, 2009 5:42 pm

My one major problem with the theories that Nazis had all this secret working technology was why didn't they use it during the war? I also do not think they had much technology that actually worked, as they had limited resources and were fighting a two front war (three if one includes North Africa). The Nazis also had over a hundred different projects and each was worked on with little money available. Many of them were outright failures, and those they did work did not deliver as planned. Add to the problem the brain drain when the Jewish scientists were expelled in the 1930s, and one should see all the problems the Nazis faced.

I do believe the Nazis did develop a nuclear bomb, even though it was Jewish scientists who came up with the idea and on how it would work. By the time it was ready, the war was over for all intents and purposes. (Many knew the war was lost once America got in, and by late 1942 it was proven true). If they had bombed New York City or London, the revenge by the invaders of Germany would of been terrible.

I am also wondering if the reason the scientists were executed for working on the Glocke was that the massive tunnels were built by slave labor and the scientists would of pointed fingers at the Nazis. Rather than hang for war crimes, the Nazi leaders had all the witnesses executed.

Still, I find the ideas they were thinking about as quite fascinating.
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon May 25, 2009 7:44 pm

Hi kidflash2008. Very Happy I am aware of the blog you kindly offered the link to and the opinions of the author. Very Happy

I am favorably impressed with what I am learning and it fits with some "other" stuff I am aware of from life-experience during the 1960's. Very Happy That "could" change but I've seen nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for potential new and "new" old developments.

Physics doesn't care about the people who choose to interpret it. Very Happy I am very fortunate to have walked the path this far and I think I'll explore further. There are some aspects of the reported "Die-Glocke", like the "tuning" to make it less disruptive to cellular life-systems over several sessions (according to Cook) that is bit of a clue. Very Happy The "little bell" that SARA built is another. So's the Russian with the interesting "history". So is Ning Li. The coin has a least two sides and it spins. Very Happy I really wanted to read what Witkowski had to say but that will have to patiently wait until possible. Waves crest.

I am more looking toward Stern-Gerlach Effect with respect to one aspect of "Die-Glocke" in it's alleged 1944 rendition - and a couple other little-known but not-hidden possible pre-cursor "device states" that could have benefited other "more pressing" programs of the time. BTW: Stern won the '43 Nobel prize for physics and despite the claim from others that Gerlach was awarded a Nobel Prize I can find no such evidence with those who award the Nobel'. Very Happy I may have missed it and would welcome authenticated correction. Stern went with the 33' "Exodus" to America. Funny, I know a different Nobel - might just have to visit. Click. Click. I'd really like to chat with Schauberger's grandson or visit. I find it unfortunate that Viktor Schauberger and his work are not more fully understood and saddened that some negative-application aspects of "Die-Glocke" may well have been a result of his early work being incorporated into a device he likely knew little about. He knew enough to be of interest to the USA.

The USA doesn't interrogate one for 9 months for nought. There is much more here than I ever thought and maybe more than I currently suspect. I have new hobby. Very Happy

I think it possible that despite the unavoidable difficulties of the time that "certain" research and development was very, very successful - in limited research models and constrained by the PTB that controlled the research AND may have actually been suppressed AND discredited by elements of those same PTB who may or may not have transferred and left a very dark stained legacy for the editors of post-war history to bleach and "clean-up". It's the usual motives - no doubt that would tend to suppress a technology "that could put them out of business" and threaten the interest of the status quo. Very Happy Maybe.

For this thread, I'm not-to-much "up" on the negativity in human behavior but rather looking at what "good" science and perspective may yet come out of such things as "Die-Glocke" and perhaps the Kecksburg event (if not two or three other incidents as well).

Yes kidflash2008, I do enjoy Jim Marrs perspective on a variety of topics - especially America. Very Happy There was a time when America was viewed much more favorably and with less suspicion internationally - perhaps history will repeat itself. Very Happy

Did you ever hear of a gent named Glatzmaier? Very Happy 'Interesting physicist he. "Everything" in the public shop science window - quietly supports at least some of the notions thought of as "alternative-physics".

It "could" take a sustained crisis of global proportion to liberate such ideas and be assured the PTB's will "milk" that for everything we're worth too. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Wed May 27, 2009 10:34 pm

Um, where was I? Herding jello uphill. Very Happy

Ah, LISA, then GRACE, then Bushman, then Faget - break - re-cap, then geodynamo, magneto-environment, a description of the 1940's machine's potential interaction with the environment, the significance of polhode, birds, obvious engineering challenges and potential ways they may have been overcome with the available technology of the day, quadrupole motion, how it may have been done much better with 4 or 6 orbiting contra-rotating stacks instead of one, the SS Schauberger suppression, the 340,000 patents, the Junker's "trucks", Kammler's intentional enigmatic decisions, the weird cattle stuff, Donner et al - break - re-cap, why the Kecksburg device may have been significantly different and in what ways it may have differed... oh my. Very Happy That'd only be about half-way. That's "my" problem - by choice. LOL. Very Happy Then the "new" stuff - people stuff, US, Brits and Canada.

I am feeling more rather than less favorable to some aspects of "Die-Glocke" technology having wound up in the Kecksburg event. Increment by increment I've run into things that seem to "fit" - so far. Very Happy

Here is a narrated clip on LISA with a really annoying "electronically altered voice" but it does a very good job of illustrating LISA's function "listening" for the "big waves" and how gravitational waves propagate and radiate and how "the speed of gravity" may not be the same as "the speed of light". Very Happy



Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Sun May 31, 2009 8:05 pm

The "gravitational" Earth looks very different from it's "electrical" look. Here is a very short clip about the US/German GRACE Mission :


The GRACE Mission homepage. GRACE as used to "see" earthquake gravitational effects JPL, "Earthquake signal visible in GRACE data" and a Science Daily PDF on gravity and quakes. A great piece "Getting the Lowdown on Gravity" a JPL News Feature Q&A with Dr. M. Watkins 2001. Here.

""Q: Once you make these gravity measurements, what are you going to do with them?

A: Grace measurements of Earth's gravity field are going to be 100 times more accurate than those we now have. They are going to revolutionize our understanding of Earth's structure, oceans and climate and how they are changing. People have jokingly referred to this as "remote sensing without photons." It is the only kind of remote sensing technique that doesn't scatter light or some part of the electromagnetic spectrum off an object but uses gravity directly as a way to measure and learn things about Earth."


An MIT alum news-bit about GRAIL's lunar ambitions.

The environment in which "Die-Glocke" and the the body which allegedly arrived in Kecksburg would have operated are complicated by the overlapping of various fields (including it's own) and many variables that all would have to be accounted for in full to have "control" and predictability of use. It "could" be that predictability has only really come to light as a result of study "after the event" - it would have been "all new" in the earliest of the practical tests if such tests were conducted at all. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:24 am

A NASA Mission Update on GRACE from Jan 9, 2009.


Other things - accidents happen. Very Happy

A funny thing happened when I was finding out what else may have been flying about and above North American air-space on Dec 9, 1965 in relation to Kecksburg besides the 2 USAF launches out of Churchill Manitoba Canada. I knew there was a launch at Vandenberg from previous research, what I did not know was that there were in fact 2 launches at the Air Force Western Test Range (AFWTR) aka Vandenberg AFB. The one I knew about was an NRO/CIA keyhole (KH-4A-1027) satellite launched on a Delta as common name OPS 7249, NORAD ID: 1816 1965-102A. Um, then what is OPS 7249 DEB, NORAD ID: 1838 1965-102B?

It doesn't appear in the NIMS Index, 1965-102A does (all the relevant data is public-ish). Space Track lists it. NSSDC isn't giving me the orbital data or anything much (their server may be experiencing trouble). Very Happy

How can one get more secret than an NRO launch? How about two? Very Happy The known one decayed Dec 26th but was listed as having "some difficulties" due to "erratic attitude". The other one... weird orbit numbers; more round than normal for a surveillance sat of the day. The known launch was at 21:10 GMT. The unknown one I, er-ah-um can't find a launch time or a launch vehicle spec and nada on payload data. It must be more classified that the classified one? Very Happy This warrants a little closer inspection as the known launch was a 3300lb payload - unknown what the unknown launch payload may have weighed. Unknown. Very Happy Fun.

Here's the known stuff for 1965-102A at astronautix.com, search term "KH-4A 1027", here. A summary:

KH-4A 1027
Nation: USA.
Payload: KH-4A s/n 1027 / Agena D 1621.
Mass: 1,500 kg (3,300 lb).
Class: Surveillance.
Type: Military.
Spacecraft: KH-4A.
Agency: NRO/CIA.
Perigee: 186 km (115 mi).
Apogee: 439 km (272 mi).
Inclination: 80.10 deg.
Period: 90.80 min.
COSPAR: 1965-102A.
USAF Sat Cat: 1816.
Decay Date: 1965-12-26.

1965 - 21:10 GMT Launch
Launch Site: Vandenberg.
Launch Complex: SLC1E.
Launch Pad: Unknown.
Launch Vehicle: Delta.
Model: Thor SLV-2A Agena D.
LV Configuration: Thor SLV-2A Agena D 448 / Agena D SS-01B 1621.

KH-4A. Erratic attitude necessitated recovery after two days of operation. All cameras operated satisfactorily.

So I was on Space Track and just keyed in the launch date (I am usually looking for decay dates) and boom - 2 launches December 9th 1965 - one classified - the other? Very Happy So... at least 4 launches that day facilitated by the USAF and at least two of those four very close to the time of the Kecksburg event.

Strange that the "unknown" (in the NIMS Index and sat Cat) "other" Vandenberg launch has a decay date even earlier than the known decay date of December 26 from 1965-102A. 1965-102B ID: 1838 came down on December 15.

1965-102B OPS 7249 DEB may not be related to Kecksburg but it is very surely the more "dark" of the two Vandenberg launches that day and "darkest" of the 4 the USAF launched.

Eyewitness accounts do rule out much in notion of satellite debris (Blystone, Bulebush and Romansky). Their descriptions would not likely match a Keyhole (likely Corona or earlier) satellite remains nor the fairing of a Delta. Could a second OPS 7259 DEB Delta carry a payload large enough to account for the mass of the object claimed to be recovered by US military, NASA and "other" forces that evening and night? It seems possible and should not be written-off as entirely unrelated as there is no listed agency involved with 1965-102B that I am able to find so far other than the USAF launched it for "someone" - maybe themselves. Perhaps that information will "turn up". Very Happy I wonder how they dragged it out of the bush and loaded it on the flatbed? Egyptian style - on shoulders using poles and a sling? While potentially "hot"? And all on a hour or so notice? Very Happy

The Space Track launch information for 1965-102A OPS 7249 and 1965-102B OPS 7249 DEB:


The Space Track decay information for 1965-102A OPS 7249:


The Space Track decay information for 1965-102B OPS 7249 DEB:


A link at NSSDC for the NIMS index in ".doc" format, here and the Satellite Index here.

December 9th 1965 was a very busy day. Very Happy I will follow up on this when the NSSDC orbital data and spacecraft classification data is being "served up" again at NSSDC.

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:09 am

Here is some info on Corona. It was designed for a few orbital passes at some Soviet Bloc target, then would (normally) be captured in mid air as it parachuted back to earth. Its been declassified, so I'm not sure why the government would keep a lid on this if its from Corona, but here is the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite)
The shape of the recovery vehicles are vaguely acorn shaped, though I'm not sure what size they are, or the size of the Kecksburg object.

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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:08 pm

Super, thanks for the post dayanx. Very Happy The second "less documented" launch from Vandenburg AFB would seem potentially not to be a Corona or earlier Keyhole surveillance satellite launch "if" the lack of launch data holds true concerning it.

I agree completely that the salient aspects of Corona series satellites are declassified and it would be "no problem" if there were some or any data of use appearing in either the NIMS Index or the Sat Catalogue of the OPS 7249 DEB 1965-102B launch or if the NSSDC orbital data were available for the "unknown" launch (it was not yesterday). So, for now until better data comes along there seems to be a second "special" launch out of the AFWTR with even less data than the known Keyhole NRO/CIA launch.

The Smithsonian NASM has a blurb about the KH-(x)B series Corona devices, here. 1965-102A was a KH-4A payload according to astronautix.com and they don't have any data at all on 1965-102B. Oh, the Smithsonian NASM also display the "unclassified bits" of Corona quite openly as this picture link shows. It "would" be quite a stretch to "put" a Keyhole film recovery cannister/cassette at the Kecksburg scene in light of the eyewitness accounts.

Thanks again Very Happy for the contribution dayanx, cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:21 pm

I think the witnesses of the Kecksburg object would of been able to tell if it was a module like that, dayanx. Thank you for posting it, as it is quite interesting.

I am of the belief that the Glocke was not a flying craft, but another type of experiment that had to do with electric or magnetic type energies. Either that, or the place was used to enrich uranium (or develop the trigger for) an atomic bomb.
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:49 am

I am having some difficulty retrieving the NSSDC Goddard NASA master catalogue records for the two Vandenberg rocket launches after several days of trying from different browsers, machines and locations. Space Track is the only one that requires registering with the NSA. Both Space Track and N2YO satellite servers "agree" the links to both December 9th 1965 Vandenberg launches "should" be there but the NSSDC server doesn't respond. I may be being geo-blocked or having some technical issue. Would another member mind testing the links to the detailed launch data? Here are the links at NSSDC: 1965-102A OPS 7249 NORAD ID: 1816 and the less-known launch 1965-102B OPS 7249 DEB NORAD ID: 1838. Thanks.

I was actively searching for methods of field containment that "could" have been built in the 1930's and 1940's that may have had use in "Die-Glocke" and I was surprised to find more than one type of magnetic containment and even inertial containment methods were indeed possible. Thanks to Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Security Service and the National Ignition Facility for allowing linking to their site as I will likely do a bit further along. Also great thanks for the documents on the magnetic susceptibility quotients of the elements and compounds of my interest and the ferrofluid indexes. Very Happy

You must see their laser fusion reactor. Words do not do this justice. Wow is an understatement. It uses an inertial containment field in a huge target chamber that has 192 amplified lasers split by an 800lb crystal they've grown and all converge on a German-named thingy called a "holraum" with a fuel pellet of deuterium or tritium coated in niobium and they zap it. "If" it works as well as they think then before very long they will release more energy as the fuel is consumed than goes into "zapping" the fuel. Here's three videos on the reactor at the national ignition Facility that I hope all enjoy. Very Happy







Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:54 am

sounds like the worlds most expensive disco lighting, Fix. Thanks Wink
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:22 pm

I hear you dayanx'. Very Happy It does look a bit like a disco-ball. Very Happy

Glyphs are a nice break away from magnetic susceptibility studies. Very Happy A picture summary of what I've seen so far:

Known Gothic characters from the 1936 German Olympic Bell (typifying character use on bell's of the era) some characters remain unidentified to me.


A "pencil" sketch of the same photo with the characters somewhat clearer.


A sample of Sumerian text thought by some to be associated with various "societies" of the day.


Purportedly an Enochian text for comparison:


Theatrical recreations of two differing texts to do with the Vienna coffee-house meetings of 1917 mentioned in the 2007 Royal Atlantis video "Secrets Of The Third Reich". The Knights Templar, Thule and Vril societies may be the source of some various coded and storied texts.

Type 1:


Type 2:


A facsimile of the James Penniston Rendlesham glyphs for comparison..


A brief video clip of Dr. Marcel speaking about and displaying the reproduction artifact I-Beam and perhaps the most famous UFO-related glyphs.


A rendition of unknown date featuring Dr. Marcel's drawing of an "I-Beam".


A rendition of unknown date of Dr. Marcel's drawing of the glyphs he witnessed in 1947.

A larger version of the above picture.

A rendition from October 1989 of another of Dr. Marcel's drawings.

A larger version of the above picture.

The "Bell" computer graphic from the recent UFO Hunter's episode on Nazi UFOs - sorry for the low quality picture.


Both the Bell and the Kecksburg "Acorn" as depicted in a line drawing during the same UFO Hunter's episode.


A separate and third panel of characters from the same excerpt from the UFO Hunter's episode which is displayed just below the "Bell" and "Acorn" in the same line drawing.


An artist's rendition of the Kecksburg "Acorn" featured in the UFO Hunter's Nazi UFO episode.


A "pencil-sketch" rendition of the Kecksburg glyphs featured in the same UFO Hunter's episode.


A crop of UFO Magazine Forum member beLIEve's picture of the Kecksburg monument with it's arist's rendition of the glyphs.


Some "could" be similar to others and it is personally interesting to compare. Very Happy Not critical for a functional and practical understanding - but very interesting and complimentary nonetheless. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:21 pm

Why would US (or Canadian) scientists put the same Gothic symbols on the Glocke they are reproducing? Why not use Latin or another scientific language?

The symbols are still very interesting, and more so if they are an extraterrestrial language.
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:56 pm

Hi kidflash2008. I hope this day you and yours are well. Very Happy You wrote:

" Why would US (or Canadian) scientists put the same Gothic symbols on the Glocke they are reproducing?"

Who said Gothic? Not I. Very Happy One could add Argentina and a host of potential corporatistas to the hypothetical list of "concerned parties". 'Could be that "nations" are important. Wink. I've not made up my mind yet kidflash2008. Very Happy

You see kidflash2008, to my best knowledge (at this time) there have never been any actually accurate reproductions of "Die-Glocke" circa 1944 possible because unfortunately the only account from memory of the time is the third hand relation of a war crimes deposition of Jakob Sporrenberg and that was at the clutches of the NKVD in Poland, so any secrets he had were then potentially "Russian-available" for Russian "extraction" and technical analysis assimilation. An excerpt from Nick Cook's book on page 188:



The Brits interrogated Sporrenberg in 1945 and handed him over to Polish officials because of his war crimes committed in Poland. Some think the "Brits" may have known his technical information intel value, some do not - I haven't made up my mind on that yet - for me it depends on a few other lines of inquiry. Um, they "should" have known - perhaps. Very Happy He expired in 1952 on the gallows. They (the Brits) did have aerial photography of "The Flytrap" and area according to some so maybe M-19 got "something". Very Happy

The text format and font or symbology of the 1944 "Die-Glocke" has never been released nor have any engineering drawings that I know of. Very Happy But I have some new friends who do have some interrogation references for Sporrenberg. They are in the war crime movement and maybe something will develop - they are Polish nationals. An excerpt from Nick Cook's book on page 189/190:



Patience is a virtue.

I'm trying very diligently to acquire Igor Witkowski's account he had been told by a Polish agent who knew of two dead Polish agents who may have had privy to Sporrenberg's Polish/NKVD "de-briefing" - I mean they "only" had him 6 or 7 years. An excerpt from Nick Cook's book on page 187:



I have a friend hunting for RAF (British) aerial photography of the two places thought to have been involved at the castle and "The Flytrap" from the time period and a few other hopefully "helpful" bits. Very Happy If "Die-Glocke" had secrets in 1944, it then seems reasonable that US, Russian and maybe even the UK could all potentially have had similar information shortly after the cessation of hostilities. Very Happy

"Why not use Latin or another scientific language?"

A very good observation kidflash2008. Very Happy Why - indeed.

The similarities between the drawings attributed to Dr. Marcel and the characters that appear on the line drawing of the 1944 "Die Glocke" used on the UFO Hunter's Nazi UFOs episode seems present. Jesse Marcel Sr. had drawn a "beam" at one time too - it was a "box-section" purportedly.

We don't actually "know" what language or symbology was on the 1944 "Die-Glocke" and I can't confirm if there was any at all (with high confidence) without a bit more information - I don't like to over-reach the data I feel comfortable-with very easily. Some contend "Die-Glocke" was the biggest secret of all - beyond nuclear. I'm still trying to "work that out". LOL. I am fully prepared to be informed if anyone knows differently for a fact and is willing to offer any reasonable evidence documenting so. Very Happy 'Always happy to be better informed. Enough of WWII for the moment and on to 1965. Very Happy Unfortunately Mr. Witkowski's book is unavailable to me for some time in English so... I will try and procure a Polish version if I can find one.

The Kecksburg "acorn"? Why any markings at all kidflash2008 if covert? It "could" suggest "alien" or "other" and that might be helpful if one was experimenting with potentially radioactive materials in a classified military/science project that "got away" by accident into civilian air space and view on a December evening in 1965. The eyewitness Hayes claims he saw a sweep being done that "sounds" like a radiation detection exercise. Eyewitness Bulebush also claimed a "sulphur" smell at the Kecksburg scene - sulphur is used as a molten coolant in some forms of reactors. An aside: Was "The Marine Sulphur Queen" ever recovered?

A brief excerpt from the 2003 - The New Roswell - Kecksburg Exposed - SciFi Channel video with the John Hayes account of radiation personnel:



A September 2008 account of events by Bill Bulebush during the festival given to a videographer:



So why the incomprehensible (at the time) "hieroglyphics" (as per Bulebush) on the Kecksburg Acorn? Two words - plausible deniability. Especially in light of "arrangements" entered into in good faith by the USA, Britain and the CCCP effective as statements of national commitment and will on October 10th 1963 after the earlier "Cuban Missile Crisis" of 1962 which states:

"The Governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, hereinafter referred to as the "Original Parties",

Proclaiming as their principal aim the speediest possible achievement of an agreement on general and complete disarmament under strict international control in accordance with the objectives of the United Nations which would put an end to the armaments race and eliminate the incentive to the production and testing of all kinds of weapons, including nuclear weapons,

Seeking to achieve the discontinuance of all test explosions of nuclear weapons for all time, determined to continue negotiations to this end, and desiring to put an end to the contamination of man's environment by radioactive substances,"
Source: nuclearfiles.org

Ah, the stuff of JFK's legacy. Very Happy So it "could" make "good diplomatic relations" to NOT give the Russians a reason to "bang-a-shoe" at the UN (ala Khrushchev Sr. re the FG Powers U-2 incident) by having your brand-new all redesigned damaged and perhaps contamination leaking and radiating drone prototype gravito-magnetic science project encumbered by having a nation's reputation (primarily the USA) associated with it.

It "would" have gone over like a lead zeppelin in the Politburo and perhaps destroyed the earliest attempts at meaningful Soviet-US detente. "If" it was of human origin then and we are lucky it ended up that day in the USA instead of say maybe Kamchatka or Cuba. Next stop above ground - Kapustin Yar. Wink. Older readers will remember "duck and cover". Maybe. I do. We'd almost always get a NASA film the same day as a "duck and cover" exercise at school. Very Happy

The Kecksburg artifact with no markings? Some would continue to look at "human" origins instead of "other" or "alien" AND perhaps "keep" looking to human as origin. To the thinking of some; perhaps much more easily dismissed as 'looney" if associated with "alien" as opposed to military or corporate sources of whatever nation and much less apt to draw the attention of the KGB's agents in America - oh yeah, almost forgot - the American citizenry too. Maybe. JFK - such a loss for the world's peoples - sigh.

Y'know kidflash2008, I like what you wrote in regard to the Kecksburg glyphs (if not the glyphs of "Die-Glocke" from Project Laternentrager or Chroms) and I agree:

"The symbols are still very interesting, and more so if they are an extraterrestrial language."

Especially if they are - indeed. Very Happy

Cheers kidflash2008,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:33 pm

If the scant information concerning Sporrenberg's "Die-Glocke" description is accurate in the materials used (mercury/mercury antimonite) as a part constituent of the "gel" makes some aspects (particularly magnetics related) practically unworkable. It's the crappy magnetic susceptibility value of Hg. What the bloody-blue-blazes were they thinking? Mercury will give you a good plasma (mirrored when positively spin-polarized) but diddley-squat as an advantage magnetically.

Most strange.

Any Uranium would have been expected or any of the high susceptibility rare-earth metals. Hmph. Sneer. Even if they were only after the "mass" of Hg it still doesn't quite "fit". Sure they could have had a Klystron that could take incredible "G" plus/minus (Vannevar Bush's Sylvania's proximity detector proves the concept) AND elements of the Stern-Gerlach effect "would" allow for a beam bombardment through a 'lens" of a sample within a magnetic containment "bottle" and perhaps transmute U-233 - 235 "up". The other alternative might possibly be a very large "bang" if the process could not be moderated with graphite or heavy water.

I can not find any descriptions or theories or description of theories about the 1944 version of the fabled "Die-Glocke" that don't include the description of Mercury as being included. Hmmm.

Very little use of Hg in the nuclear reactor biz except in plasma research and as an alloying component (mostly medical radio-therapy uses). Au WAS synthesized from Hg as early as 1941 however and that could open other possibilities. Very Happy Perhaps the transmutation of elements would be seen as valuable by some and something of a "Holy Grail" to others. "Pillar of salt" weapons or just plain neutron weaponry don't seem utterly impossible. Hmph. Maybe there is a stable "sweet-spot" (long decay half-life) up around or below E116 that might be useful for peaceful purposes.

I've never heard anyone mention "Die-Glocke's" extension cord. Very Happy It also only makes a plain-sense that with perhaps the first test that exhibited anti-gravity-like effects that the device would have been held quite securely in an insulated test stand bolted preferably into bedrock or significant pilings. Notions of it "flopping" around on chains is not something one would expect as "de rigueur" in any scientific apparatus - quality made robust yolks are what one could reasonably expect - much like jet engine test-cell stands or the floor anchors for large generators or electric motors - great huge bolts and studs and precise robust fixtures. The penstock generators at Hoover Dam come to mind for no reason at all. Very Happy Take the tour if you are ever there - it's well worth it. Very Happy

I think I found at least a part-solution to the difficulty of bearings that my friend from P&W expressed concerning the rotating masses and that feels "better". Very Happy LOL - One "itch" scratched. Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:56 am

Fix, I love ya man but trying to read that just erased my entire sophomore year of physics out of my brain drunken
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:01 pm

Sorry for the loss of second year physics dayanx. Very Happy Unintentional on my part day'. Here are the magnetic susceptibilty tables I was choosing to use, PDF here. Of the 18 variants of Mercury listed all show a very weak negative susceptibility to magnetism, which has temporarily "thrown a spanner into the works".

You see dayanx if the materials used were strongly negative or strongly positive then I'd have an easier time figuring out what they were "up" to more precisely. I had an informal off-the-record breakfast meeting today with a former high ranking Atomic Energy of Canada Limited bureaucrat/scientist and I posed the conundrum I've just mentioned... she was "helpfully-unhelpful" which has given me some hope. Very Happy I was given some confirmations and denials about some other things I was vaguely aware of. Very Happy Oh. and a few more leads. Very Happy

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:06 am

Reading some newspapers of the day (Dec 1965) has left me with a different impression of the Kecksburg event than I'd have thought.

It does seem that Wright-Patterson had a team dispatched from Pittsburgh by none other than Major Hector Quintanilla USAF of a certain "project" with a certain "reputation" for "explaining things". Other clips mention NASA but only peripherally. The Idaho and California information is of interest. The Elyria Ohio stuff and the recovered foil material is just bizarre. There was a claim of a plane down in the River between Detroit and Windsor. In Canada, I only found repetition of what was reported first in the USA.

I have found no actual Canadian source reports as yet but that does not mean there aren't any. I've still some databases to check in NRC, DND, RCMP and the Herzburg Meteorological database but the Herzburg Institute's Non-meteorological database (Canada's declassified X-files) has nothing at all for that time period in 1965.

I have checked the weather in the few spots in Canada I felt important to document. Nothing too weird but plenty of Auroral activity that day/night and there was the E-M sounding rocket shot up from Churchill Manitoba by the USAF. I'd really like to get some hourly weather data and magnetic declination value for Kecksburg, Dayton and on up generally North West - the Canadian data is online for 1965 - I tried NOAA in the USA but couldn't find what I wanted and I don't know where else to look for that data.

I'd never heard mention of fires being started on the ground by material being shed from some object or phenomena in the sky to do with Kecksburg before - lots of small fires if the clippings are correct. Dec 9 1965 does fall smack-dab-in-the-middle-ish of the Geminid shower too. Some years things like 3200 Phaethon show up like in 1998 (I can't believe the link is still there after 11 years) and NASA documents it, Link 1 .

I still have more to do to check some of the timings of what may be unrelated other stuff but the newspaper clippings were a help. Here's a half-dozen generally representative of what I found:

















I've just finished reading Callum Coats 2001 work detailing Viktor Schauberger's Living Energies. Very Happy I'm pretty much convinced Schauberger and "Die-Glocke" are not directly related... I'm kind of glad about that and I find Schauberger's natural-science and energy ideas really forward-thinking for such a dark time.

"Die-Glocke" was the domain-noire of far more shadowy and shady people.

Cheers,

Fix'
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PostSubject: Re: "Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future   Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:46 am

Well, the headline "Fireball seen over much of US" pretty much proves this is an astronomical event in any case, and not a crashed conventional aircraft. The military's weirdness more or less rules out a meteorite.

The speed at which they responded suggests they were ready for this activity to take place, though without necessarily knowing where (even today, re-entering objects under loss of guidance can hit almost anywhere).

There could have been a sort of Alien equivalent of the Nuclear Emergency Search Team on standby, but I'm leaning more towards a black project gone. Whether satellite or refurbished/retro-engineered E-Tech probably doesn't matter unless we know exactly what it was.
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