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 White holes

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davefair
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PostSubject: White holes   Sun May 29, 2011 10:28 pm

I have watched and read about black holes sucking matter into huge gravity wells with nothing coming out of them.
So my question is simply this. Where are the white holes? The ones with matter dumping out of them. It follows that if there are
black holes then there should be white holes. Worse yet, why has nobody mentioned them or for that matter searched for
them?
Your thoughts would be appreciated

Dave( affraid )fair
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Vortexasylum
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Mon May 30, 2011 10:04 am

[quote="davefair"]I have watched and read about black holes sucking matter into huge gravity wells with nothing coming out of them.
So my question is simply this. Where are the white holes? The ones with matter dumping out of them. It follows that if there are
black holes then there should be white holes. Worse yet, why has nobody mentioned them or for that matter searched for
them?
Your thoughts would be appreciated

Dave( affraid )fair[/quote

They're at the end of the black hole. All the shit piles up there and eventually clogs the drain... You'd need a big ass plunger to clear that now wouldn't ya!
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davefair
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Tue May 31, 2011 12:26 am

Yep, you would indeed need a big one.
What I meant was where ever the black ones go there should black holes there dumping matter here where we can see it.
Then I thought say no one ever mentioned that before.
So why didn't they. Hmm that would be a good one for Kaku!

davfair
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Tue May 31, 2011 9:52 pm

Hello Dave Fair,

It gets complicated. If Time could be reversed then a positive-Time Black Hole would become a negative-Time White Hole. In a 4 dimentional universe (x, y, and z axis plus Time) like ours, all of the so-called world lines for geodesic forms that converge into the Black Holes possess radius=x all the way down to radius=0 which would be at the Black Hole's theoretical singularity. A parellel Universe could then begin at that same singularity as a White Hole that would at the same time generate negative Time. Relative to us of course. One could view this as a Wormhole but because of the nature of a singularity it would be of no use as a Star Gate in the usual sense of the term.

Hope this helps. This may be better though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

I'll go a little further in the concept. It could be that the result of the matter that fell into a positive-Time Black hole in someone else's Universe "Big Banged" out via a corresponding White Hole thus creating OUR Universe. The negative Time of that same White Hole however would be as positive Time to us.

It's all about Time of course, and Light, and from the point of view of an Observer. General relativity at it's best!
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onlychild
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:34 pm

You look at us on earth, and then listen to our attempts at defining what ET probably teaches in their grade school classes, and we are still a sorry stupid race ... but yet, we know ALL ABOUT ET.


A white hole, in general relativity, is a hypothetical region of spacetime which cannot be entered from the outside, but from which matter and light may escape. In this sense it is the reverse of a black hole, which can be entered from the outside, but from which nothing, including light, may escape. (However, it is theoretically possible for a traveler to enter a rotating black hole, avoid the singularity, and travel into a rotating white hole which allows the traveler to escape into another universe.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole
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Vortexasylum
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:07 pm

Yeah, like I said. One big ass plunger will be needed.
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:04 pm

Hello OC,

"It is impossible to use the bridge to cross from one universe to the other, however, because it is impossible to enter a white hole event horizon from the outside, and anyone entering a black hole horizon from either universe will inevitably hit the black hole singularity."- Wikipedia.

Hmmm.

A Black Hole's rotation is theoretical also. Light not being able to escape from a Black Hole is widely accepted. BUT my question on the astronomy Forum was one created by deducing an idea from the facts. I reasoned that all matter that FELL into a Black Hole did so because ALL of the matter's energy (in ALL it's various forms) had been lost at the event horizon. Not used up however. By it's very nature any motion, even at the quantum level, possesses heat and therefore energy at some range of the electromagnetic spectrum- part of which, of course, is visible light.

At theoretical absolute zero all motion ceases and heat does not exist, therefore no energy will exist. Since Black Holes possess no energy my question to that Forum was this: Are Black Holes the coldest places in the Universe. The answer turned out to be yes for the large ones. The left over microwave radiation that permeates the fabric of space is somewhere around 3.7 Kelvin. A large Black Hole can be 1.7 Kelvin, zero being equivalent to absolute zero.This being the temperature at the singularity. In other words inside the Event Horizon in which light supposedly cannot escape.

My thought on this is that the energy of light will not allow photons to fall into a Black Hole and so there is no energy or light beyond the EH that needs to escape in the first place. All of the energy given up before the "fall" remains outside the Black Hole rotating around it, eventually migrating to the poles and get thrown off as the tightly wound magnetic plasma jets that can extend for millions of light years from either pole. What ever it is that is left over inside the Black Hole's Event Horizon, as the singularity, will eventually evaporate, believe it or not, as Hawking's Radiation and, if nothing is added to the Black Hole, it will eventually disappear. Theoretically the small ones in fact do evaporate away.

The whole idea of this is so intriguing that when one begins to add Time and Light to the phenomenon the drama can really escalate into some heated debate as one may imagine.
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davefair
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:53 pm

Excelent,
The question is compounded by this. The light is then acellarated by the singularity, At what point is the light then stopped? How can you have both acceleration and deacceleration at the same time? we know the x,y and z as given by observation. The fourth deminson is then (by Einstiens theroy) both slowed and acclerated at that moment, this then becomes a quandry by the vary nature of the event horizon.
Is there then a point where in the black hole reaches a point of saturation that then forces the black hole to become the white hole? More so that the time demension would then reverse. Carring that thought a little furthur, are we then certain of which way time is flowing? Even more so try this. if that is indeed the case are we not created to go with this paticular time flow? The Star gate is quite simply majic brought forward and has had the majic wand technoligy waved over it. Another thought since all of the gates were linked one to another, can you concieve how long it would take to place that secound gate? Let alone all of the others. Even at warp speed.
The origanl thought is still where are the white holes. They have to exist in the here and now. Try this one on. The center of our galaxy has what in it? The center of our universe, The big bang itself could actually be a white hole and the galaxys a smaller ones?
I was visiting the local V.A. center and got into a discussion with a young marine (just back from bin laden land) He insisted that dwarf stars were the last step before super nova.
As usual let me know your thoughts on the questions. Knowledge runs secound only to greed.

dave elephant fair
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jackgbowman
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PostSubject: yes fascinating   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:31 pm

don't forget also what comes off in the jets is what can't be digested by the black hole, xrays antimatter etc...
the large ones form galaxies, including our own.
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: White holes   Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:18 pm

Hello Dave Fair,

davefair wrote:
Excelent,
The question is compounded by this. The light is then acellarated by the singularity, At what point is the light then stopped?

First let's simplify. A non-rotating Black Hole willhave a point/mass singularity as opposed to a rotating BH which possesses an elongated singularity. For the sake of clarity no one has seen a Black Hole, only evidence to support the idea which is theoretical as the math proves it is withing the scope of General Relativity (GR). The light is not so much stopped as it dims out to nothing as it approaches the Event Horizon (EH). At the EH Time is equal to infinity. An observer outside the BH will never see light enter but an observer entering with the light will see it enter and also will notice nothing different during the fall to singularity. But it WILL go on forever.

How can you have both acceleration and deacceleration at the same time? we know the x,y and z as given by observation. The fourth deminson is then (by Einstiens theroy) both slowed and acclerated at that moment, this then becomes a quandry by the vary nature of the event horizon.

In actuality the gravitational attraction of a BH is no more than any other celestial body of the same mass. Untill in the proximity of the EH, at which time light and other energies and even matter can still escape. Once in the EH though all bets are off the table as anything that gets to that point has left nearly every ounce of energy outside and what little is left falls infinitely to singularity which BTW has infinite density and a diameter of zero.

Is there then a point where in the black hole reaches a point of saturation that then forces the black hole to become the white hole?

No.

More so that the time demension would then reverse. Carring that thought a little furthur, are we then certain of which way time is flowing? Even more so try this. if that is indeed the case are we not created to go with this paticular time flow?For us Time will always seem as positive. It's only a necessary reference point in which can be used to gauge the scope of a conceptual thought. After all, a similar argument could be "If everything on Earth is on the North side of the South Pole then hat is on the South side?".

The Star gate is quite simply majic brought forward and has had the majic wand technoligy waved over it. Another thought since all of the gates were linked one to another, can you concieve how long it would take to place that secound gate? Let alone all of the others. Even at warp speed.
The origanl thought is still where are the white holes. They have to exist in the here and now. Try this one on. The center of our galaxy has what in it?

?\A supermassive Black Hole.


The center of our universe, The big bang itself could actually be a white hole and the galaxys a smaller ones?

Yes on the Big Bang part, No on the Galaxies. Remember, visible light isn't all there is. Only about 4% of the Universe is in visible light. The rest is Dark Matter and Dark Energy and I broke a cardinal rule by stating both of those in the same sentence. DM and DE are nowhere near the same subject.


I was visiting the local V.A. center and got into a discussion with a young marine (just back from bin laden land) He insisted that dwarf stars were the last step before super nova.
As usual let me know your thoughts on the questions. Knowledge runs secound only to greed.

Star birth and evolution depends on the amount and type of matter that coalesce. At several stages Stars will use up their fuel and no longer have the internal pressure created by nuclear reaction to withstand their own internal gravity well and will eventually collapse into something smaller, get hot again from the pressure and a new round of fuel consumption will take place. One of the last phases is when all the fuel is used up and after one or two supernovas blow off the outer shell a star is reduced to a stable state as a neutron star. If more matter is accreted it can gain more mass than even it can support at which time it too will collapse into a Black Hole.

dave elephant fair
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