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 Some thoughts on aliens

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onlychild
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:33 pm

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:
"I believe in Occam's razor ... simplicity before complexity regarding answers."

Though, that's not what Occam says. Occam says the hypothesis should not be complicated... without necessity . It remains that sometimes a complication is going to be necessary. The simpler answer is not always the answer most correct even as it is most likely. The mind is not justified closed based on Occam. I submit that that's the province of the skeptibunky.
Umm - that was a paraphrase of the base idea, which boils down to exactly what you said.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:21 pm

Hello only child,

Sorry, I cannot tolerate doomsayers. That includes Patrick Geryl and all the rest! The Alverez team and their discovery and hard proof of the iridium layer throughout the geologic layers worldwide is as close as I'll come. They did not make predictions much to their credit. Beryllium10 is a naturally occuring byproduct of cosmic rays and their effect upon the oxygen and nitrogen content in our atmosphere. If the idea is resulting in climate overthrows there are other reasons for such events that, to me anyway, are more plausible IMHO.

I will accept your acceptance of this however for it is an opinion from a member of this Forum that I value. That is to say I will read more on the subject in order to have an intelligent discussion without embarrassing myself completely. It sounds as though you as quite convinced of this senario and I wholeheartedly respect that!
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:30 pm

Seems to me there are plenty of ways this world could end. No shortage of things to worry about. (Anyone worried about the geologic activity currently going on so near the Indonesian supercaldera? One volcano exploding and 21 others showing signs they could go.) This world will end someday, no doubt about it but I agree with those who aren't going to sit around worrying about it.

I do not think that the aliens/ets are going to swoop in and save us. I think their being here has more to do with perserving themselves than it does with providing us with help of any kind. It's obvious not everyone here agrees with that but I think the way each person views it has a lot to do with each person's PERSONAL experiences since many of us here have done decades of research.

It's well known that even when people see the same event, they can interpret it very differently. No wonder we have such a diverse pool of thoughts and ideas.
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Alfred Lehmberg
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:33 am

"Umm - that was a paraphrase of the base idea, which boils down to exactly what you said."

No, not if one invariably and reflexively chooses the simpler explanation because it is the simpler explanation. That's not what Occam says. Occam says do not complicate apart from necessity. It remains that, oft times, complication is going to be necessary.

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:01 am

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:
"Umm - that was a paraphrase of the base idea, which boils down to exactly what you said."

No, not if one invariably and reflexively chooses the simpler explanation because it is the simpler explanation.
OK, then let me explain ...
One should begin with the simplest answer because one can build upon it if need be. If you begin with something complex, and error exists, you have to tear it all apart and replace the errors with fact, at which time these corrections could show more errors, and the deconstruction and rebuild becomes a nightmare. Been there, done that.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:40 pm

We're not talking about the same thing.

You made the seeming intimation to me that the simplest answer had a preference for correctness based on what I'm taking to be a classic misinterpretation of Occam. I pointed out that Occam's old chestnut does not reject the complicated hypothesis... when it is necessary.

To answer you: Reasoning from the simple to the complex, from the known to the unknown, and from the most frequently used to the least frequently used is a given and understood. Admonitions to reason in this fashion are unrequired, actually, and a seeming dodge endeavoring to put words in my mouth showing I preferred to start at the complicated thesis and work down. Not at all. How could that even work?

I only point out that many use Occam to discount a complicated hypothesis... where I don't believe that was his intention. It seemed to me you might be doing such. I could have been wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:33 pm

Alfred Lehmberg wrote:

I only point out that many use Occam to discount a complicated hypothesis... where I don't believe that was his intention. It seemed to me you might be doing such. I could have been wrong.
I don't discount anything, and complexity in a picture needs to simply prove it belongs there. It's like when people say "I saw a UFO." In their minds they think alien craft, but all they saw was an unidentified flying object, until more data comes along, or, it does something really unusual to push the picture in a particular direction.

Plurality must never be posited without necessity. William of Ockham: Sentences of Peter Lombard.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:00 am

Onlychild, I disagree that when people see a UFO they automatically think of an alien craft. Most people try immediately to rationalize what they saw. For example, just today the news here was full of "what was it in the sky" over a supposed UFO. The general response was NOT that it was an alien aircraft but that it was probably a "secret" airplane followed closely by no, it was just another test rocket (which anyone who had seen the sky on Sun when it looked like a plaid pattern from all the test rockets and jet activity would have known) then followed by maybe it was just a commercial plane. There was NO suggestion anywhere of anything related to aliens.

I think it was telling however, that the first suggestion was something secret from the military instead of the commercial airplane. Guess people are a lot more suspicious of our government these days.

metoo
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:26 am

Maybe it's me ... I donno ... once upon a time people would realize that if someone said:

I don't discount anything, and complexity in a picture needs to simply prove it belongs there.


And then said:

It's like when ...


They would realize what followed was an example, and that there was an overall context to everything.

At this point I would say: It's cell phone brain damage ... but I have the sneaking feeling that some people would fail to realize it was a joke.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:49 pm

Hello only child,

Cell phone brain damage? Shocked Shocked Shocked Now wait just a gull darned minute there! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:09 pm

glider wrote:
Hello only child,

Cell phone brain damage? Shocked Shocked Shocked Now wait just a gull darned minute there! Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:31 pm

Onlychild, you may have already explained this in previous posts but there's a lot of stuff on here so I prefer to just ask and excuse me if I'm asking you to repeat yourself. I'm confused...where do you say you are getting your information that you say you were "told"? Did you ever have physical contact with an alien entity? Are you saying your information is given to you during your dream state? If so, did "they" tell you they were aliens giving you the information? Or do you think your information is coming from something "other"?

I know people have said all of those things have happened to them but I'm trying to figure out if one or none is what you are saying. Would you mind clarifying? I realize not everyone here wants to provide personal experience details so if you decline to be more specific that's fine too.

metoo
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:44 pm

metoo wrote:
I'm confused...where do you say you are getting your information that you say you were "told"?

I'll just simplify this:
It began in 1955 ... I had a "lit-up" bedroom experience and about 5 skinny small - ? - entered my room during the middle of the night. There wasn't enough light on the far side of my room to get a description more accurate than that, and it would be just over 35 years before I ever read that this had happened to others.

When they started to move my way, I ducked under the covers, and stayed there. Nothing that I know of happened. I took a peek after awhile and the room was still lit-up. I figured they were at the foot of the bed and there was no way I was going to look. I did - fall asleep? - but woke up again in the same position, took a peek, and the room was dark.

The next morning when I was getting dressed for school, a strong thought just ran through my head: The Catholic Church is wrong. You can make what you want of that, but after all of these years I now know what it means.
I ran into something in notes I have that said there were more lit-up bedroom events, but I don't remember them. For some reason I also cannot explain, in my teen years I knew there was a study coming I had to do. All I knew was it connected to the New Testament and what went on that night - but I had no clue how to do anything like that.

This study began in 1973, I had NO idea what I was even looking for, but by 1980 I caught my first glimpse of a problem with the text and interpretation. Things went on s l o w l y from there and I was getting bored with it all, mostly because I had no idea what I was looking for.

It wasn't until ... I think 1991 ... when I woke up one morning with a single line pounding in my head: The Alien Connection. OK, what was THAT supposed to mean? I didn't even know there WAS a subject on aliens - turns out there was.

The idea is that this is the way my entire life has run since I was 5. Hints - follow the hints - more hints - follow that ... etc. I have never been TOLD anything ... it's like - "Can he figure this out?" Why should I have to? But that has been the game, and I stuck it out for 55 years because, if nothing else, I was curious where this was all going. In 1989 I had said to myself that I didn't want to be 80 and wonder what it would have been like if I had stuck to it - so I just kept going.

You can make of this whatever you want ... I believe that if someone has something to say, they should just say it. Seems not in this case.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:26 pm

onlychild, thank you for the information. If you were communicating with or even just receiving communication from anyone then you were "told" something. I didn't mean to suggest that you were given any "answers" or any "revelations".
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:27 pm

[quote="metoo"]I came on this site because I have some thoughts about aliens, abductions etc. I've been looking into the subject for over 20 years but haven't really discussed it much with others. So I wonder what others think about some of my thoughts and would welcome constructive comments.

Is it possible that aliens DO NOT have earth people's best interest in mind at all and that those who have recieved messages that they are here to "help" us or to ease us through a transition period or something along those lines have been brainwashed? Since aliens can supposedly abduct earthlings and manipulate them to allow abductions, relax them to do physical exams (often described as painful), persuade them to forget all about the events involving them etc why can't they be making us think that they are benevolent?

I keep thinking about how Europeans came to the Americas and claimed to be controlling the natives for their own good. Purporting to be civilizing the "savages" and converting them to the "true" god, etc. Europeans proceeded to kill natives in droves, purposely gave then diseases like smallpox and syphilis, did their best to wipe out all history and native customs, stole anything of value they could get their hands on etc. Is it possible aliens are doing the same thing with us as we are considered savages compared to them?

Please understand I am not stating a fact here. I am wondering about possibilities. Most abductions are described as unpleasant at the very least and IF aliens are friendly why don't they come to us and ask permission to examine us, take us aboard their craft, etc??

Another question I have wondered about is are the aliens in fact, from another planet somewhere in the universe? Or do you think they are possibly from another dimension? Or is it possible they are actually "us" but from our future when things have gone not so well? I certainly don't know but I wonder what others might think. Or are there other possiblities?

Anyone want to discuss? [/quote

Sure. There could be different species and races or nations within the species abducting and experimenting on humans for one reason or another. There could be some groups that have their own sets of ethics and procedures who make the extra effort to return the subjects when honestly they don't have to. There are organizations that do experiments etc. without concern for the human subjects. They harvest organs etc. and discard the rubbish. There could be regulations enforced by an intergalactic police body, and some of these entities are illegal poaching humans and experimenting on us and harvesting body parts for selfish purposes involving selling them on the intergalactic black market or private zoo's or alien fetishist whom think its kinky to get down with earth men or woman. The fortunate cases are the ones that are returned and not the ones that are scooped up and pulled apart like antz and then the remains are just shot into space or dare I say... gulp used to fuel their space craft as an energy source. There are a lot of unknowns and unknown unknowns conerning the reasons why.

But don't lump alien beings into a single group and a single agenda. It is possible the only reason that specimens are returned are not because they are benevolent but because regulations have been placed on the abductors by their own society or a race or groups of races.

Other wise they could just scoop up specimens from our rock and breed them on a planetary system closer to home unless of course they pulled specimens from another place and breaded us here.

Just like their are good and bad people there are good and bad aliens with personal selfish agendas. If one exist so does the other.

Also they have been here for a while and if they intended to take over they could have done it already instead of waiting for us to advance. Seriously things could have been as simple as some teenage aliens were driving around looking for some tail. They came upon earth thought the females of the species were sexy and decided to come on down and get busy and have some fun. Then the authorities discovered them and their off spring and decided to flood the planet with water to kill the little mistakes...

who knows. Simply keep an open mind
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:40 pm

onlychild wrote:
metoo wrote:
I'm confused...where do you say you are getting your information that you say you were "told"?

I'll just simplify this:
It began in 1955 ... I had a "lit-up" bedroom experience and about 5 skinny small - ? - entered my room during the middle of the night. There wasn't enough light on the far side of my room to get a description more accurate than that, and it would be just over 35 years before I ever read that this had happened to others.

When they started to move my way, I ducked under the covers, and stayed there. Nothing that I know of happened. I took a peek after awhile and the room was still lit-up. I figured they were at the foot of the bed and there was no way I was going to look. I did - fall asleep? - but woke up again in the same position, took a peek, and the room was dark.

The next morning when I was getting dressed for school, a strong thought just ran through my head: The Catholic Church is wrong. You can make what you want of that, but after all of these years I now know what it means.
I ran into something in notes I have that said there were more lit-up bedroom events, but I don't remember them. For some reason I also cannot explain, in my teen years I knew there was a study coming I had to do. All I knew was it connected to the New Testament and what went on that night - but I had no clue how to do anything like that.

This study began in 1973, I had NO idea what I was even looking for, but by 1980 I caught my first glimpse of a problem with the text and interpretation. Things went on s l o w l y from there and I was getting bored with it all, mostly because I had no idea what I was looking for.

It wasn't until ... I think 1991 ... when I woke up one morning with a single line pounding in my head: The Alien Connection. OK, what was THAT supposed to mean? I didn't even know there WAS a subject on aliens - turns out there was.

The idea is that this is the way my entire life has run since I was 5. Hints - follow the hints - more hints - follow that ... etc. I have never been TOLD anything ... it's like - "Can he figure this out?" Why should I have to? But that has been the game, and I stuck it out for 55 years because, if nothing else, I was curious where this was all going. In 1989 I had said to myself that I didn't want to be 80 and wonder what it would have been like if I had stuck to it - so I just kept going.

You can make of this whatever you want ... I believe that if someone has something to say, they should just say it. Seems not in this case.

The catholic church is wrong and they sort of make up things as they go along to suit their situation. If Hitler didn't go insane and the Nazi party conquered europe and then eventually America then they would be supporting then and their brand of theology to save their own skins.

Plus it was an organization instituted by the Romans... Forgot which emperor I think it was constantine. Before it's existence they persecuted christians. They also had a habit of assimilating cultures it conquered so roman practices are a mixture of paganism as well as fear mongering of the less educated and poor into putting more money into the orginization.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:49 pm

knives52 wrote:

The catholic church is wrong and they sort of make up things as they go along to suit their situation.

Yeah but that's not the point. The story (salvation from above at the time of "doom") was our story, except the main character was changed. The "woman" never had a son or a mate / husband / whatever. The child replaced the woman because of the doctrinal commotion 3000+ years earlier. Paul was using the wrong version of the right story.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Sat May 28, 2011 12:32 am

Yes answers!
O.C. gave me mine........ simply by giving me a "truth" one so obvious one that I recognised it at once.
Let us dicuss the scientific approach. The one that will provide the truth.
The videos must be verifiable as an acutal sighting. I.E. one reported to the (laughable) press.
The one in California was described as a air craft contrail/rocket. it was reported that there were no aircraft in the area.
No missles had been fired. Yet, there it was. Having taken it appart pixel by pixel, I may say that there was indeed some thing in the sky
But with out a high def zoom to work with I can't tell you what it was. One of the things that was for sure, it was subsonic. There was no pressure wave comming off of the pixel. There was no associated sonic boom. Based on those two facts we can safely decide that there was some thing there. One more intresting questions is this. Was this object acelerating or decelerating? It looked to me to be decelerating.
The flight path by the way coinsides with the shuttle returning to earth. The shuttle however would still be well above the speed of sound.
Here is a another question for you. If this object were to arrive at say, Area 51, would it start to decelerate from a point furthur to the west of the shuttles reentry path?

Davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:02 pm

I thought I would stick this in here ... it's notes I just took from a documentary on the Clovis Culture Event, 11,000 years ago according to this. This was the event where the Clovis culture had no connection to the Goddess / sign of life.

The Clovis Culture Event
Notes from: Comet Storm documentary, 2008

13,000 years ago (11,000 BC) it is in the geologic record.

Raging inferno stretching 300 miles.

Equal to 10,000 Hiroshima’s.

Entire continent swallowed by a cloud of dust.

Killed off nearly all life on the continent.

End of the world scenario for those people.

Comet 3 miles wide – airburst – 20 million megatons.

Larger than simultaneous blast of all nukes in history.

Wildfires from Atlantic to Pacific.

Soot, ash, smoke, comet debris.

Superheated atmosphere.

People, animals suffocate where they stand, the rest starve.

Clovis culture ceases to exist.

Nowhere else on the planet.

A century before new people arrive.

Winds, hundreds of MPH, spread fires.

Dust cloud blanketed the country, 3.8 million square miles.

Global cooling.


Last edited by onlychild on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:26 pm

Hello All,

A disturbing disserte' on the fragility of life on this planet.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:43 pm

glider wrote:
A disturbing disserte' on the fragility of life on this planet.

I've always wondered how literal the phrase I heard "the end of the road" actually is.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:16 pm

Oh Boy!
Now thats one I know for sure. The end of the road. Durring the time of chris Columbis the end of the road was when you sailed off the edge. Durring the J.C. time it was just that when the road became a trail. Durring the really early time it was the trail.
I digress. Today the end of the road is quit literally Where the road ends (see I-95, I-10)
How ever I believe the one you mean is the great implosin that will occur in the far distant futur when the universe implods.
There I feel all better now.

Dave( bounce )fair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:39 pm

davefair wrote:
Oh Boy!
Now thats one I know for sure. The end of the road. Durring the time of chris Columbis the end of the road was when you sailed off the edge. Durring the J.C. time it was just that when the road became a trail. Durring the really early time it was the trail.
I digress. Today the end of the road is quit literally Where the road ends (see I-95, I-10)
How ever I believe the one you mean is the great implosin that will occur in the far distant futur when the universe implods.
There I feel all better now.

Dave( bounce )fair

[Hey - what happened to my pic?]
Sad


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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:11 am

Actually,
The military taught me to read aireal photos as well as complex work project maps and blue prints. Tying the whole mess together was rather complex. The important thing is the programs that I used. I could get incredably detailed informaiton from them. I could even determine the deep water in the Tampa bay. I could go so far as a pixel by pixel analysis. In the old days we would use something like a jewlers loop.
Just look at what you can do with google earth. It goes right down to street level.
One day I would like to get my hands on the m.a.d maps that the navy and geodesic survey folks have. Gotta be some realy intresting stuff on those maps.

These days I just photograph grand kids and flowers.

Dave(the old) fair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:02 am

Thoughts about Clovis.
Did they die? Or did they not come back.
Start over? The evidence is there locked into the earth.
You have but to "read" it.
But if you search,
there is more evidence that proves it was not the first time.
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