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 Some thoughts on aliens

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metoo
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PostSubject: Some thoughts on aliens   Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:16 pm

I came on this site because I have some thoughts about aliens, abductions etc. I've been looking into the subject for over 20 years but haven't really discussed it much with others. So I wonder what others think about some of my thoughts and would welcome constructive comments.

Is it possible that aliens DO NOT have earth people's best interest in mind at all and that those who have recieved messages that they are here to "help" us or to ease us through a transition period or something along those lines have been brainwashed? Since aliens can supposedly abduct earthlings and manipulate them to allow abductions, relax them to do physical exams (often described as painful), persuade them to forget all about the events involving them etc why can't they be making us think that they are benevolent?

I keep thinking about how Europeans came to the Americas and claimed to be controlling the natives for their own good. Purporting to be civilizing the "savages" and converting them to the "true" god, etc. Europeans proceeded to kill natives in droves, purposely gave then diseases like smallpox and syphilis, did their best to wipe out all history and native customs, stole anything of value they could get their hands on etc. Is it possible aliens are doing the same thing with us as we are considered savages compared to them?

Please understand I am not stating a fact here. I am wondering about possibilities. Most abductions are described as unpleasant at the very least and IF aliens are friendly why don't they come to us and ask permission to examine us, take us aboard their craft, etc??

Another question I have wondered about is are the aliens in fact, from another planet somewhere in the universe? Or do you think they are possibly from another dimension? Or is it possible they are actually "us" but from our future when things have gone not so well? I certainly don't know but I wonder what others might think. Or are there other possiblities?

Anyone want to discuss?
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davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:50 am

Hmmm! A discussion fo the possibility the the aliens might do to us as we did to the indains. Bio war by giving the indigents pox filled blankets, could be. Forcing us to leave our lands and move into rservations. Well not yet. Connverting the population from 100% indain to less the 1%. Hmmm could be. Lets hope not . There is a physicist who has expressed those thoughts on national t.v. the jap guy, he's my favorite alien. Oh by th by did you know the japanese have acquired a great deal of land here?
I have to admit though as the anglosaxans played indain on ocasion. I get a charge out of the japanese cowboys.
But certainly lets discuss that. Say as I recall they brought manhattan for some blankets and beads. Would that be similar to our buying a nissain?

Davefair
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onlychild
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:10 pm

metoo wrote:


Is it possible that aliens DO NOT have earth people's best interest in mind at all and that those who have recieved messages that they are here to "help" us or to ease us through a transition period or something along those lines have been brainwashed? Since aliens can supposedly abduct earthlings and manipulate them to allow abductions, relax them to do physical exams (often described as painful), persuade them to forget all about the events involving them etc why can't they be making us think that they are benevolent?

That doesn't explain why, in 55 years, not ONE of my experiences have been "bad" ... weird a couple of times, yes, bad ... no. As far as the "horror stories" go, they make no sense to me.



I keep thinking about how Europeans came to the Americas and claimed to be controlling the natives for their own good. Purporting to be civilizing the "savages" and converting them to the "true" god, etc. Europeans proceeded to kill natives in droves, purposely gave then diseases like smallpox and syphilis, did their best to wipe out all history and native customs, stole anything of value they could get their hands on etc. Is it possible aliens are doing the same thing with us as we are considered savages compared to them?

That would be projection ... we do it, so they could be guilty of that too. Personally, I don't buy it. These atrocities were inflicted by sociopathic morons, not people with higher intelligence.




Please understand I am not stating a fact here. I am wondering about possibilities. Most abductions are described as unpleasant at the very least and IF aliens are friendly why don't they come to us and ask permission to examine us, take us aboard their craft, etc??

Maybe - it never happened.




Another question I have wondered about is are the aliens in fact, from another planet somewhere in the universe? Or do you think they are possibly from another dimension? Or is it possible they are actually "us" but from our future when things have gone not so well? I certainly don't know but I wonder what others might think. Or are there other possiblities?

LOL ... we cant even get the simple picture straight, I think we should leave the speculating about where they come from aside.

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glider
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:54 pm

Hello metoo,

Good topic. But anything worth pursuing that is as unknown as this will take time and as much brainpower as this Forum could collectively muster. I have an idea how to get the ball rolling if anyone wants to play.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:33 pm

glider wrote:
Hello metoo,

Good topic. But anything worth pursuing that is as unknown as this will take time and as much brainpower as this Forum could collectively muster. I have an idea how to get the ball rolling if anyone wants to play.

Go for it ...
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:21 pm

Hello onlychild,

O.K. but first, I'd like to state my case....And the goal. I, like "metoo" and probably everyone else on this Forum, joined up in the hopes of getting some answers and to be able to discuss UFO openly. I checked all the Forums including this one and invariably UFOs were lumped in with other paranormal subjects like Bigfoot, ghosts etc. I decided a couple of weeks ago to pursue the UFO phenomenon specifically thinking there would be such a Forum on the web to satisfy a busy mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:31 pm

Cont'd by glider.

I decided to join this Forum because the webpage, which spoke of the magazine, stated that scientific approaches were part of the collection of articles within it's pages. Well! Good enough for me I thought and not only that there was a Forum linked to it. Finally, a place where I could get solid info to fill out my lack of info and Help put the UFO puzzle to rest. Solve it. Done.

Not so.

...to be continued....
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:47 pm

Cont'd by glider.

I felt that with the other "para" subjects (which BTW are each good endeavors on their own) on the same Forum that the UFO image which already was kinda suffering in the legitimacy arena was not getting the recognition of being as serious a subject as it sbould be getting (MJ-12's fault?- who knows and quite honestly who really cares!). True UfO pursuits don't and shouldn't give a damn one way or another, nothing will in the long run stand in the way of a focused and energetic effort. True in ANY field of study.

...to be cont'd...
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:10 pm

Cont'd by glider.

So after joining this Forum I decided that I wanted the type of atmosphere that was a little more scientific in it's approach and one that was as objective as the subject would allow. I wanted a Forum that a debunker wouldn't dare post on without leaving seriously bruised! And maybe even end up a staunch proponent as a result encountering good and grounded logic developed by this Forum because of it's systematic study of UFO events of ALL kinds.

A Forum that could conceivably attract certified and vested individuals in the fields of aerodynamics, structural engineering, propulsion, and physics who would not fear their reputations or be embarrassed to comment, answer our questions, offer insights, or fear being attacked by anyone on this board!

...to be con't...
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:28 pm

Cont'd by glider.

This idea starts off small but the methods learned will go far. It WILL take time. It WILL take work. And it Will take patience but I feel the payoff will be well worth the effort to make this Forum the best most trusted one on the net to date.

Once a week I will post a NON HOAXED UFO video. Not necessarily a recent one but some will be of course. For anyone who hasn't seen one however, they may as well all be recent videos. The idea is this: this Forum is invited- EVERY member- To absolutel pick the featured video apart, I mean chop it down into the smallest of details.

Light, location shape speed, what it appears to be doing, what anyone THINKS it's doing, time of day, direction of travel, where it appears to be comming from, where it appears to be going, topography of the area, geographic features if the area, bodies of water, population,land usage, and on and on until every point, and more, as ideas are developed to turn into questions that can be presented to further define the event. Such as color, lights, type of motion altitude and any changes in any of these criteria.

...to be con't...
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glider
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:47 pm

Cont'd by glider.

No one can gather all this data together alone. It could be be that after viewing the video for a week, which I don't think is unreasonable at first, a member may offer to check and post the topography of the area under study. The next video perhaps a different member will offer to provide that particular piece of info. If a member keeps changing what criteria they will research then eventually a large body of this board will have developed the skills needed to investigate all aspects of an event as an indivual as well as a group. The skills will get more proficient and breaking down a video into it's component parts will get faster and easier so that eventually quite a bit of ground can be covered in progressively shorter time spans.

How does it sound so far?
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metoo
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:51 pm

There are a lot of things that don't make sense - reality tv, politics, Justin Beiber.....that doesn't mean they don't exist. UFOs/abductions can be discounted like anything else but just because it is discounted doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Maybe it didn't happen? Yes, but maybe it did. I think healthy discussion is the only way to bring the subject to light and to find answers.

I would much prefer to be the one venturing out of the cave to search for new lands than to be the one sitting there safely by the fire trying to convince myself there really is nothing outside that I don't already know about. As I said, I don't have the answers (obviously) but I have a lot of questions and I was hoping to find others with questions willing to discuss the possibilities.

I'm willing to agree to disagree but without discussion there is no learning, no growth. We don't have to agree on things to provide information and expand our personal knowledge. Your experience may differ from mine, but that in no way negates MY experience. No amount of intellectualization, no amount of nagativity or argument, no amount of denial is going to change my experiences or yours BUT it might give me new insight.

Granted, everyone on this site combined may not be able to solve the UFO/abduction question but does that mean we shouldn't discuss it? Does that mean someone shouldn't try? I have found that most UFO/abduction books, sites, etc basically only list happenings and/or argue whether or not they were real. Can't we get beyond that part of it and discuss the "what if it is real" part of it?

I'm not looking for quibbling, one-upmanship, pushing private agendas or arguing semantics. I'm looking for sharing and, from that sharing, learning more about this subject. I was hoping others on here were too.
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davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:06 pm

good on you glider,
Yes I too came here in search of answers.
Certainly I am willing to try a scientific approach. Post a non hoax vid. I have at my finger tips a program to take it apart pixil by pixel.
In fact two of them.I would be more the glad to lend my small time and efforsts to le grand quest.

davefair
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free wheel
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:46 am

Good thread Glider . What you are suggesting sounds practical and probably a lot of fun , and would certainly be a way of focusing peoples minds a little
here on this forum .
I myself am not a scientist , nor do i have any photo analytical skills or even software to do such ! But i am more than happy to throw my two cents in whenever appropriate .
One thing i do have going for me is my sightings and contact experience . i personally don't need any convincing of the reality concerning this subject , as do several others on this forum ,but i also know that we never stop learning .
Get the ball rolling Glider and lets see what happens !

FW . Very Happy
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onlychild
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:36 am

glider wrote:
Hello onlychild,

O.K. but first, I'd like to state my case....And the goal. I, like "metoo" and probably everyone else on this Forum, joined up in the hopes of getting some answers ....

OK, let me try and clarify this in my own head. When you (or anyone else) uses the line "get answers" what exactly is running around in your head? What "answers" are you looking for? This way we can all be on the same page without any guesswork.

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glider
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:28 pm

Hello only child,

Good question indeed. One of the issues I personsally have are about the type of crafts that are said to fly at great speeds and then abruptly make 90 degree turns. I have serious doubts that these objects are "piloted" by living creatures whose bodies will not be plastered all over the insides of the the ship as they are subjected to such g forces. That's one example.

Another is to search the data bases to determine if the circle shaped UFO is primarily viewed at night perhaps indicating that the are possibly actually discs with only the outside edge projecting a visible light.

And that maybe the info in a certain area, on a certain date includes sightings of different shapes like triangles, cigar shapes, etc.. In other words could triangles shift into cigars, or rectangles ard are always part of a widespread event. It could mean that cigar shaped UFOs don't shift into rectangles by themselves but need the triangular one which can become either. Basically I'm thinking that some of the elusive ideas concerning UFO sightings are due to a shape-changing strategy to throw off any patterns we may try to discover.

The ULTIMATE answer is, of course, always to discover WHY this phenomenon is even occuring. The purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:24 pm

glider wrote:
One of the issues I personsally have are about the type of crafts that are said to fly at great speeds and then abruptly make 90 degree turns. I have serious doubts that these objects are "piloted" by living creatures whose bodies will not be plastered all over the insides of the the ship as they are subjected to such g forces. That's one example.

Quick answer: If you can design something that can make a 90-degree turn on a dime, which in essence is already defying the laws of physics, I doubt seriously if "passenger comfort" is going to be a problem.



Another is to search the data bases to determine if the circle shaped UFO is primarily viewed at night perhaps indicating that the are possibly actually discs with only the outside edge projecting a visible light.

Say what?



And that maybe the info in a certain area, on a certain date includes sightings of different shapes like triangles, cigar shapes, etc.. In other words could triangles shift into cigars, or rectangles ard are always part of a widespread event. It could mean that cigar shaped UFOs don't shift into rectangles by themselves but need the triangular one which can become either. Basically I'm thinking that some of the elusive ideas concerning UFO sightings are due to a shape-changing strategy to throw off any patterns we may try to discover.

The ULTIMATE answer is, of course, always to discover WHY this phenomenon is even occuring. The purpose.

IF comes before WHY, and then comes Occam's Razor: why would a technologically advanced society even need to do that?

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:55 pm

Hello only child,

Occam's Razor would be a great reason to not have to design something while working out the problem of keeping a body in it's seat, harness, tube or whatever other contraption one would require to keep one's brains intact enough to think- nevermind keeping one's foot on the accelerator!

Some sightings are circles- wrong guy to ask what that means. I interpreted the witness accounts to mean circles. A great deal are observed in darker skies like nighttime. Few are spotted in daylight but saucer shapes are predominate over circles in the day.

There are databases loaded with accounts as most may know so whether or not I believe in 'em doesn't matter. But if the excercise of research sheds light on things then good.

Of course "IF". But since this is primarily a UFO Forum and I see members spinning their wheels without a plan to break the cycle of info/speculate, info/speculate I saw a need to do something. Or try something, and felt attempting to formulate a somewhat structured way to attempt a focused direction of investigation would help empower someone and myself by taking some action rather than just be stuck with random, disconnected thoughts. And trying to make sense of some videos to see if there is a relationship of one to the next instead of watching one and thinking it's unique and not part of a bigger picture.

And, like I said, I think the Holy Grail so to speak is still why. "IF' as you say they are real. I remain objective but will work as if they are. It's the only way I can see to maybe determine both.
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:07 am

glider,
lights in the sky after dark are always orbs. lights in patterns always indicate an attachment to something else. Triangles,cigars and such.
objects changing shapes in the daylight could of course be nothing more than light distortation over long distances.
Objects observed on radar (with the exception of the advanced computer systems, Ageis systems) are mearly blips.
Transponder equipted aircraft always have a friend or foe designator.
Now on the other hand, aerial vehicles observed by active duty military hovering over nucelar storage facilities tend to be carefully observed and recorded with great care to detail. While it is possible to get unclassified documents with the blacked out portions.
Well I'm sure you get my drift. Durnig a field exercise we were providing security for a portable radar site. The air force seargent in charge of the sight started to raise hell. His radar had a 365% with a 450 mile circle. He had just seen a blip go from one side of his range to the other in one sweep of the unit. We found out later that it was the then classifiedd sr71. No contail and no sound, till a little later.
Was that a ufo, why certainly it was.
Now the airforce has retired the sr71. Do you really believe that they retired it with out replacing it?
When the shuttle returns to the cape it comes over my side of the state. When it does we always hear a double sonic boom.
Thats when it is slowing down.
I personally think your idea has merit and value to this forum.
I am more than willing to participate.
I do wish I had acess to those nonexistant files that the military are holding (with out the black outs)

Davefair

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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:32 am

Hi guys .
Glider , your idea about presenting known , non hoax footage of
UFO's on the forum . I take from that , that you already know they are a reality ? When can we expect the first instalment ?

Thanks ,


FW .
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm

Hello All,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=405ZolhyqMA

Watch a buncha times. Questions to follow!
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:48 pm

Hi Glider , and thanks for kicking off .

My first question has to be . How do you know that the footage is not hoaxed ?

I have seen this footage before , and although i find it interesting , i have never paid much attention to it .

Perhaps i am missing something , not sure . Looking forward to your questions regarding this footage .

Seem to recall that this vid was taken in Edinburgh ?

FW .
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:20 pm

Basically because it's a cloud according to the amount of time that jumps by on the display and the fact that the traffic barely visible at the lower left is like fast forward. also because of slight edge variations in the shape. this is not a hoax per se but I believe it to be presented as something it's not. Just to let you know I'm not the least bit prone to exageration. So I believe a case of mistaken identity just like Dave fair says.

The next one is for keeps!
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:51 am

My thoughts,
on the first one. I noticed that it greatly resembled the one over the chines airport.
In deed it could be a cloud, I down loaded it and took a couple of snap shots and ran those thru adobe.
I rand the sharpeng filter at both a moderate and again at a higher lever of sharpening. I then croped the image
and ran it thru photo zoom 2. It did indeed look like a cloud.

davefair
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PostSubject: Re: Some thoughts on aliens   Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:14 am

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